h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Women in Islam, veiled oppression or stigmatized misconception - A1124768
Author: Adib Qasim - Better than the right thing is one who does it. Keeper of Islamic Studies, Tandoori Roti and Sweet Lassi - U208494

Is this to long, should I brake it in to threee?

In my opinion, this is an excellent entry. Very informative. It is difficult to make a short comment without trivializing your efforts. Your writing highlights the vastly different values of western and Muslim cultures and is very timely.

The article itself is indeed very long. But how would you go about dividing it into three parts without losing it's impact and educational value?

Thank you very much for the effort. This is the most powerful and educational submission I've stunbled upon. Eye-opening.

It is certainly incredibly long (I had to do a skim-read - I'm sorry, I just don't have the time), but I agree that to break it up would lose the power of an incredibly informative and interesting entry.

You do have a few spelling errors - I'd run spellcheck if I were you. And the singular of 'women' is 'woman', by the way.

Also, we can't have pictures in Peer Review entries. If your entry eventually gets selected as an Editors' Choice, it'll get a picture put in for it, but other than that, we're not allowed to have pictures. You'll have to take that out.

But thank you for a very interesting read!

Thanks.

Well I know what you mean by losing impact, just that ifi it is to long, I could split it in to three joined entries which would be:

Part 1: Introduction and womens rights and misconceptions in Muslim countries.

Part 2: What the Qur'an says about Womens rights.

Part 3: What went wrong and the culturla practice bit.

Though I would rather leave it as one entry.

Adib

This is a question for the italics really - Cculd this be a candidate for the new University procedures to allow three linked entries to go through PR together?

Is this a reworkinf of your 'What Islam really says about women' entry?

Yes it is. I thought this was a better approach, so I spent a few months talking to girls I know living in Muslim countries learning what there rights are actually like in there countries etc.

Adib

I have done a spelling check, I think I have got rid of most of the errors, but some may still lurk there.

Thanks for the imput
Adib

I might add a few links to stop Pakistani men from complaining lol.

Adib

anybody still interested in this?

I'm still subcribed to the conversation...Is that what you are asking?

It's an impressive work.

Well subscribed to the thread maybe, thers not exactly much of a conversation going oh well.

Guess I will leave it till it getys picked or noticed.

Adib

It's a powerful topic and your writing is very balanced.

Thanks.

I tried to keep it fair, but a few of the many people I have shown it to out side of H2G2 have moaned about what I say about Pakistan. They moan that I am to negative about Pakistan as it al happens out side of the citys and that women in the citys have very many rights and do not fear rape etc. an that women in Pakistani citys are safer than in America or the UK. They can't seem to understand that the article is about womens rights in Islam compared to what they get rather than a comparisom of Pakistani womens rights and Western womens rights and that going on about the treatment of women in the west has no place in the article as its not about western womens rights or comparing west to east.

Adib

It must be hard for your Pakistani friends not to compare and contrast cultures when reading your work. As I read your words about zina, it was very hard not to makea cross-cultural comparisons.

The problem with the zina one is that they have to understand the difference between pakistans view of zina and Islams view of zina. I don't mind their being cross culutral views as that gets people thinking, I just don't like it when I recieve e mails of a Muslim man in Pakistan ranting about what I say about Pakistan completely negegint the objective of the article and that the mentioning of Pakistan is only a small part, and that all his points about it happening only in the small villages is completely voided as I have actually pointed that out in the article.

Islams rape laws are similer to those found in the west, that being if a women says she was raped she is not held responcible or punished and that some will only be charged if she can identify her attacker or any witnesses can or if there is evidence, which in todays world includes forensics such as DNA matching etc.

The main difference between Islam and the West is that the west does not see sex out side of marriage as a bad thing for society and so only punishes the rapist for forcing himself on to the women and murder if he kills her. Where as Islam sees sex out side of marriage as being a crime against community and so the rapist will recieve 100 lashes for sex out side of marriage, an addional punishment for forcing himself on to a women followed by (if he killed her) hanging if the parents choose.

Islam sees that if someone is found guilty of commiting murder beyond all doubt and that there was no real reason for the murder (i.e. accidental death - manslaughter does not count, nor does selfdefense or fighting in war etc) then the parents or next of kin get to choose the punishment for the guilty party. They can choose to either have him put to death or they can show mercy and let him live and he will recieve a lesser punishment. If they show mercy they will recieve great reward on the day of judgement, if they choose death then they will not punished as its their right.

The victim or victims family would be intitled to compensation as well in the cases of rape or murder.


Adib

Well... actually in western cultures women are not punished by force of law for having sex outside of marraige and do not need to defend such behavior with claims of rape..true or not. However these differences in mores are not all that ancient. They have evolved fairly recently in historical terms. Several hundred years ago western attitudes were perhaps not all that different.



Rape accompanied by murder is a fairly extreme offense. However, rape without murder is still considered a serious offense in most western cultures and often earns long prison sentences. However, communal rape as a punishment for perceived undesirable female behavior is a practice seldom seen in Western cultures.

The comparison of the beliefs and practices of different cultures does not result in the necessary conclusion that one culture is better or worse, only that humans are essentiall plastic and are capable of an astounding variety of beliefs and practices.

Great article. Well written and very informative.

Actually the point I was making was that apart from the whole sex out side of marriage aspect Islams laws are simieler to the west, that being that a rape victim is seen as a victim and in not punished and that the guilty party is the man who commited the crime.

As I did mention the only real difference is that adultery and fornication is a crime in Islam whilst it is not in westen countries. It is a law that should be punished and that both men and women are punished for it in Islamic law as long as there is proof of them commiting the crime.

Actually in regard to Islams sentancing of rapists the western worlds punishment for rapists is very light, but thats not the point in focus of the entry. Neither is whos culture is better. I have been healy critisised for this entry regarding the fact that I do not point out what is bad in other countries etc, but as I said to them and I say here, The entry is about what rights women have in Islam and the difference between that and what they are given in Muslim countries today. There is no room to move in a cultural comparison of other countries and the west as that is out of topic of the article and does not deal with the points raised at the start of the article. The only time I mention a non Muslim country in comparison to womens rights is when talking about the origion of such practices. That country being India for comparison simple becasue most of the things happening to Muslim woen are also happening to women in India, not becasue one country is better or worse than the other, but simply bcasue they both share the same roots of culture, a culture that is strongly rooted in the ethos of their people and as such is hard to remove. If you compare Pakistan and India they are very similer in the aspect of where and when womens rights are abused. That being that womens rights are fine and ok, comparable to the wests in the cities. But when you leave the city to the small remote tribal villages this is where the problems happen.

The difference between India nad Pakistan in this area is that India is activily trting to change this, expecially the whole child prostition racket there. They even bring in Police from other areas to investigate as they full well know that the police in the areas they are investigating are more than likely in cahoots with the brothels. An so India can be seen as actively trying to stop womens rights abuse, while on the flip side Pakistan is bringing out more and more laws to protect women, which is fine in the city, but they are doing nothing to make sure these laws are enforced within the village and tribal communities.

An thats the distinction between the two. They both have their problems with womens rights abuse and both say they want to change this, They both want to educate and remove the cultural views that breed such behaviour, but only one is activily showing action in this area.

Or in other words the mentioning of India is not mentioning a different culture, its talking about the same culture as Pakistan and Bangladesh and shared by most of the middle east and Muslim countries.

Becasue the focus of the entry is on Islam and womens rights and comparing it to what they actually have, is why I have been very carefull to not mention womens rights other cultures as in the west or far east and have stuck to the culture shared by the countries in that vicinity. Thought I have drawn attention to certain issues here and there I have never tried to make it sound like I am condoning the actions in Muslim countries as it happens elsewhere in the world etc.

I hate that kind of argument as its lazy thinking and is stupid, hopefully I will not hear anyof it on here in discussions here on H2g2, but I have had a few e mails that tred that way b people lol.

Adib

Hey... You gave that older article an overhaul!

Glad to see you're still working on this.

"women’s virgina" <- sorry, but that's more than a typo



DR. HELL
(Back from the dead!)

yeah I know, but the bloody spell checker can't correct it either lol. I will change it correctly when I can, but you know what my speelings like.

Back as work now so it might have to be changed in 9 days time when I get my next day off.

Adib

ok i fixed the er vigina thing.

Adib