A Conversation for Valid and Invalid Arguments

Logic - a wonderful subject

Post 1

Also ran 1

Thanks for reminding me of two wonderful years studying Logic and Metaphysics at University in the early seventies when I was middle aged. Our lectures were given to us by a marvellous ex-Jesuit who really made the subject live. As a researcher after I graduated I found that the basis that I had gained in those two years stood me in marvellous stead.

One thing I appear to have forgotten -due presumably to my great age! Is a tautology a circular argument?
Thanks again for a super article.
AR1 smiley - schooloffish

Logic - a wonderful subject

Post 2


A tautology is a statement that always has to be true, isn't it?

e.g. Frogs are vertbrates or invertebrates.

It just can't help but be true.

Here's another tautology. This was a very enjoyable entry. smiley - smiley

Logic - a wonderful subject

Post 3

Also ran 1

Dear Cleo,

Thanks for replying. I thought a tautology was a cricular argment.i.e. not introducing anything new or of value into the conversation. I suppose that one could say that it could be a true statement - but then one could just as successfully say it with an untrue statement!!.

Which leads me to the next item which I saw on your home page. (Very interesting incidentally. I reached that "horrid" age years ago. I am enjoying my old age enormously in spite of rather dubious health!.

One of the pleasures of my old age was watching that magnificent trio of Angus,Paul and Ian giving it all they had every Friday. I never wondered about their private lives as I no longer read the newspapers. I thought that Angus took the quips from his fellow team members very well and did not think twice about what he got up to when not on Have I got news for you.

Imagine my horror and dismay to find that someone has decided that he was no longer morally good for us. It has saddeneed me beyond measure because who are we to cast the first stone? I do not mind what he does with his free time as long as he is entertaining, witty, ascerbic, critical, quizzical and let us face it truthful about certain irregularities in whatever sphere he is talking about. I admired his sheer cheek and cussedness in taking on anybody and anything. Nothing was sacred to him and hoestly I have laughed more during that programme than any other. I watched the repeats regularly and did not mind them being repeats.

The show will never be the same. They might as well call it another name. And I wonder if both Paul and Ian will be fired by the same fuse with another presenter. I think we have lost something so special and really inimical of the BBC and I sadly regret that to my mind the trio will never be the same again.

I wish I could think up a logical phrase to indicate my sadness.
A valid arguement!!

Angus Paul and Ian are entertainment.
Enterrtainment is Have I got news for you.

Angus Paul and Ian are Have I got news for you.

How is that?

OK for a septugenerian I think. Regards

AR1 smiley - schooloffish

Logic - a wonderful subject

Post 4


Ah yes, tautologies. They deserve an entry of their own.

Here's the deal. Among mathematicians and logicians, a tautology is a statement that's always true, like X = X, or more complicatedly, (P => Q) => (~Q v P). Those are true, whatever value you assign to X, and whatever statements P and Q represent.

Among the highly questionable breed of non-mathematicians, the word "tautology" has been borrowed to mean all manner of things, usually something along the lines of a circular reasoning fallacy. That has actually become accepted usage, in some circles. The formalist in me fidgets uncomfortably, but the descriptive linguist in at least piqued. Like I said, it's worth its own entry.


Logic - a wonderful subject

Post 5

Also ran 1

Thanks for the explanation. I seem to remember that my dear professor was not very impressed with tautological arguments!.


AR1 smiley - schooloffish

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