h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

In the entry, it sais that you should not mix the use of Christian names with using 'du'. That part is not quite clear to me. Maybe it could do with an example on what is so wrong and how it should be done properly?

Hello André
Let´s take the name "Hans Schmidt"
If you call him "Hans" say "Du".
If you call him "Herr Schmidt" address him "Sie".
That´s all.

There are, however, some exceptions to the simple rule.

Supermarket staff often address each other with the last name and "Du": "Frau Krause, komm doch grad mal her".

And in some cases, though I do not now remember the exact situations, people may address each other with the first name and "Sie".

I was addressed with Sie and my first name when working as a waitress in Germany for a summer. The practice seemed to be that students (as I was) and Azubis - staff in training - got Sie + first name, but once "ausgebildet", or trained, they magically got "Herr Schmidt" or whatever.

Everyone who is above the age of sixteen and not part of the family or a friend is adressed by using the formal 'sie'. On the one hand it is simply a matter of politeness and tact and an indicator of social status and respect for other persons. On the other hand it helps keeping aloof and upholds a certain degree of discretion.

Now how does 'Sie' change to 'du'?

There are some simple guidelines:
The older person offers the 'du' to the younger one; the one who is more famous offers it to the one who is not as famous or not famous at all, the boss offers it to the employee.

Doing it the other way around is considered rude and indelicate!

Btw. everybody is allowed to remain at the usage of the 'sie'. Though such a dispensation with closeness could be suggestive of pride and arrogance.

But why do people use the 'sie' together with the Christian name respectively the 'du' together with the surname?

The first one might have below cause, the second one is more like an insider joke.

Since there is no real counterpart to 'sie' and 'du' in English language many English movies have been voiced-over quite strangely, with couples using the formal way to address each other even after they have obviously have had sex. Very often they then switch over to the 'du' all of a sudden.
Because of this people may think that the use of the Christian name in connection with the 'sie' was a hybridform between the formal and the personal form of addressing people. It is a little closer than the pure use of the 'sie' and a little less personal than the use of the 'du'.

The use of the 'du' together with the surname is almost exclusively used by children, who are used to talk to people they know -family and friends- while otherwise expected to 'be silent when grownups talk', and employees in supermarkets who use the 'du' when talking 'behind the scenes', but are expected to use their surnames in front of the customers.

As a side note: The 'sie' is never written with a capital s except for the beginning of a sentence or in business letters.

Sylvaroth

I am a native speaker, so I know what I'm talking about.

When to use 'sie':

- Children should use that whenever they adress someone who looks grown up. (Gave me quite a start when that first happend to me for the first time, I still get asked if I'm 18 already though.)

- When talking to shop assistants or clerks or any person in a formal setting you never adressed before.

- When adressing anyone in a position superior to your own, e.g. your boss.

- Whenever in doubt, you can't really go wrong with it.

When to use 'du':

- Family (Some strange people [usually rich and/or snobby] insist on adressing their spouses with sie and making their children calling them Herr Vater und Frau Mutter...]

- Friends that established the du with you.

- Students at university mostly use du with each other.

- Students at school always use du with each other.

- You may use du with shop assistants in record or comic shops, but don't if you are not really sure about it.

- In Austria it is common to use do with everyone when you are above 1000m above sea level. Mind that you have to stop doing that when you leave the mountains!
(This rule was the result of one of the most horrible weaks of my life. Three years ago my grandfather died and I ended up going on holiday with my grandmother instead of him. They had been doing that for years and were always going to the same place with the same friends. That place unfortunatly (for me) was above 1000m. So they insisted that use du while there. They were all above 70 and I was 21 years old. I tried to avoid directly adressing anyone but my grandmother and keeping to my self the whole week...)

Use of Christian name and Sie: That is mostly an Americanism and not very well liked by most people. The only place where it's common is school, where the teachers adress the pupils like that if they agree on sie.

Why sie at all: It keeps a (sometimes much needed) distance. Furthermore, it helps keeping you polite in arguments, as it's not so easy to use insults using sie.

Lastly: Retracting the du is a very serious that indicates that the person in question did something to mortaly offend you.

Ciao
Pris137

I am also a native speaker, and sometimes even I do have a problem what to choose in certain circumstances.

For example when you are new in a company, a group or similar surroundings.

Everyone uses the "Du" - but since you are new, you are not sure if - or if not you may use it as well.

So you wait till someone offers the "Du".
That is the safe and polite way to react.

But it can also mean, that people think you are stiff-necked or arrogant. Not realising that you are simply insecure.

But when Germans notice that someone is not a native speaker they usually don't mind if the wrong form is used. It happens quite often that foreigners (even those who have lived in Germany for a while) use the informal Du even though the formal Sie would be correct. (My ex-husband does so quite often, even after having lived in Germany for about 19 years now).

(btw - if someone does have any questions concerning the German language you may contact me, in exchange perhaps for tipps how I can improve my English, but also without these tipps)

rgds

Tina

Of course you always use 'du' when you are at a club or a pub.

You do? Guess you're still young then, because you don't do where I live.

Maybe I'm just old enough that I can afford to do so? But there is never anyone who would refer to me by 'Sie'. Where do you live - Bavaria? I mean maybe it's different when you live in a city...

Moin, I see you hail from Hamburg.

I live in Frankfurt now, but am originally from 'up north'.

Ah yes, Frankfurt.
I remember being there in the late 80s and experiencing the shock of finding the main station being closed! Talking about being a metropolis...
I really can't imagine being at a party and having to say "Sie" to other guests. I mean, you're supposed to have fun!

You didn't mention parties, you were talking about clubs and pubs.

I'm just trying to recall the last party I wen to.

Nope, didn't say 'du' to everyone there, either.

Well, you go to a club to have a party with more people than you can invite home
Max Goldt once mentioned that it often depends on what kind of clothes you're wearing; there are 'Duz-clothes' and 'Siez-clothes'

You mean jeans, t-shirt and trainers as opposed to a Hugo Boss suit and trainers?

Maybe you have a point there, though.

Since I wear neither it's funny that people talk to me at all

Oh, the wears Prada, eh? Or are you going 'au naturel'?

I prefer patent leather... Unfortunately it's not half as nice since I've got my new knee But I guess that's not quite the right issue here, is it?

True. You could always answer to the welcome message some nice Ace left you.

The combination of Christian name and "Sie" is called "Hamburger Sie" - after the city, not the fast food. Hamburgers (the people, not the fast food) take pride in keeping more distance to others than e.g. people in Cologne or Berlin do, who are both known as unappropriately familiar even to complete strangers.
The Hamburger Sie is an elegant way to address to people of "lower" social level or considerably lower age (this is why many teachers use the Hamburger Sie), i.e. people whom you don't want to offer the "Du" (which would then either be mutually used or would humiliate the other person whom you still expect to call you "Sie"), but whom you don't want to pay the honour of the "Sie". If e.g. you have domestics (and who in Hamburg does not ), the Hamburger Sie is the appropriate address ("Minna, bringen Sie bitte den Tee").
I have never heard two people giving one another the Hamburger Sie. One does to the other, and the other uses Sie and the family name.