h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

seems to be on the side of the more powerful at the moment. i doubt somebody can define justice objectively. if this was possible, the world would be perfect...and obviously it is not. but maybe it is not ment to be this way, maybe if the world was perfect it'll be static and not able to develope and improve itself...

Justice--the condition of the world when everyone thinks they've been treated justly.

That'd be my definition. Probably impossible to attain, though.

everyone THINKS that is being treated justly or everyone IS really treated justly, because if it's the first one, then it is not very hard to achieve, i think! it is simply a matter of a political and religous system, isn't it.

Unless you claim to have an absolutely true definition of justice (I personally don't think there is such a thing), then treating everyon justly is impossible and anyway, idff I meant that, my definition would be tautology.

As for everyuon thinking they are treated justly, I don't think that has ever been done--it's harder than it sounds. You'd have to get everyone to agree on a definition of justice. Anyway, the resulting system would be just, but not necesarily fair.

you're right on the first part. i fully agree with that...

perhaps you're right on the second one too, although the problem in thinking that you're treated justly is exactly the thinking that you're treated this way. what i'm trying to say is, that there is a significant chance to make people believe and think they are treated justly if you make them believe and think, that they have found the ultimate definition of justice. but still this is only a chance...

It seems to me there are two solutions:

1: get everyone to accept the same definition of justice, and follow it scrupulously

2: treat everyone exactly the way their definition of justice wants them to be treated

I suspect both are either impossible or would require actions that I wouldn't approve of.

i can't approve them either, but that's (the first point) exactly what happens in case of war - the justice is always on the winning side.
my philosphy teacher at school said to me once, that there was no abloslute justice at all. at first that was quite a shock for me. i thought of it for awhile and then i realised, that this was the absolute truth maybe there is only God's justice...

Maybe, then, a war is just if both sides want it to happen. A technique of war is just if both sides use it.

Who says "God" is just?

And if "God" is just, then you have a definition of absolute justice--whatever "God" would approve of.

i'm coming out from the fact, that God knows everything and He is perfect. so if Gods knows everything and is perfect, He has to be just. there is simply no other way.

i do not think that justice needs to be approved of somebody though. justice simply exists, just like God (if we can assume that He exists, which is obvious since we assume the existence of justice). so i guess God and justice are one and the same thing.

If you assume justice is perfect, or even a meaningful concept, then you have a point.

If God is always just, then there are three possibilities:

a: There is some absolute definition of justice which God knows and follows (though we mortals may not necesarily be able to understand it).

b: There is some entity higher than God that tells God what to do, and this entity is just.

c: Whatever God does is inherently just, because God does it.


To analyze these:

a assumes an absolute definition of justice, which you have said you don't think exists. I agree with you on this.

b contradicts the ideas of God of most mainline religions.

c assumes justice=God.

Assuming that you don't believe in b, then you must believe in c. The problem is, c is an absolute definition of justice. Whatever God says is just or does is justice. The opposite is injustice.

I think the dictionary definition of justice is the condition in which the laws are enforced. So the real question is "what is the highest source of law".