A Conversation for Applying to University

Ireland and the US

Post 1

Nora - back from the Dublin meet!

Just as a P.S. to the UK entry, the US and Ireland each have systems different from those outlined.

The US is a bit like the UK, but there is no UCAS equivalent. You have to apply to each college individually. To my knowledge, they all look at grade point average through high school / secondary, SAT (standardised test) score, and a personal statement from the student and an unrelated person. Between the personal statement and an interview, the more popular and prestigious schools (Harvard, Yale, NYU and others) want to hear about extracurriculars - sports, languages, music - or special family or personal circumstances. The kids I know in the US are applying to about nine colleges. If you are a US citizen and resident, your state school (e.g. Georgia State) has to take you, with free tuition, if you have a B+ average through high school. For homeschoolers, this is a bit tricky to prove, so many take the SAT 2, which is more rounded and a bit harder than the SAT. Your state school may not be brilliant, but you can try to transfer after a year or two on the strength of your university grades. Unlike the UK and Ireland, US university courses do not focus on one subject area, eg science, from day one. The first two years are spent in general education in history, languages, English, science, maths, etc. Some schools require you to take PE. After these orientation years, you choose a major and a minor subject, eg Biology and Chemistry. It is common to change these several times. Schools are generally chosen on the bases of location, prestige, price (non-state schools often cost dear, though scholarships are to be had), size, and general 'feel', or for a specific course like medicine in Emory or Film Studies in NYU, or for women, whether or not it is a co-ed school; there are several female-only schools which are valued for their 'nurturing' qualities. There are thousands of universities and many more tech schools to choose from. It is generally the case that US students do not work their way through university, though of course they have summer jobs.

Irish citizens or those EU citizens who have been attending Irish school for three years are entitled to third-level education with free tuition depending on their results in the Leaving Certificate. This exam is more broadly based than the A-levels. Points are counted from your best six subjects, and it is normal to take a seventh as a back-up. English and maths and, for most Irish citizens, Irish, are mandatory, and universities and many institutes of technology require a third language. Maths and Irish can be taken at foundation level, but foundation maths is not accepted by most institutions for entry - you have to pass Ordinary Level. All subjects are available in Ordinary and Honours. Honours carries more points, and is required in one or two specific subjects for many courses, eg a Higher Level C or above is required in two sciences or a science and maths for science degree courses. There are seven Irish (Republic) universities, and several institutes of technology, some of which do degree courses. They have open days from October, which are good to attend, but unlike those in the UK, you seldom get real personal contact with lecturers or students at university open days. Every school has a prospectus separate from the CAO. Applications to all these are made through the CAO system. The CAO form, appearing in October-November, is simpler than the UCAS form: it allows you to apply for twenty courses, with degree courses separate from diplomas and certificates, and does not ask for a personal or school statement. The one thing to remember is that courses are in order of choice, the first on the list being your favourite. If you get offered your first course, you will not receive offers from further down the list, and it is difficult if not impossible to transfer from one subject area to another. The entire CAO process can now be completed online, from application to offers, at the CAO website. Non-EU applicants must send their CAO forms off in December; for the rest of us the deadline is the first of February. You can apply for a 'change of mind' through June, when the Leaving Cert is taken. Art and music courses require a portfolio or a performance, but other than those there are no criteria for those applying from school except your Leaving Cert results. No interviews. Mature students over a certain age are treated differently, but I don't know the specifics. For myself and my classmates, the CAO form is sent or emailed to Galway, and a letter of receipt is sent back. The Leaving Cert is sat from early to mid-June. Unless you change your mind, you will not hear from the CAO again until a week after Leaving results come out in mid-August. The highest total points is six hundred; law and medicine courses require almost that, with Arts (history etc) and engineering coming after that in the 500s and mid-400s, and science hovering at 350-400. The points change every year, depending mainly on how many applied and what their points were. Trinity College has the highest points overall. The first-round offers arrive in the post and are emailed - be careful not to send in conflicting acceptances by post and email! You can get two offers at once, if you filled out both the degree and the diploma/certificate portions, which is a nice safe idea. As I've said, if you get your first choice(s) that's all you'll get. You must accept one within a week or so, or your offer will pass to someone else in the second round. If you got a low choice or none in the first round, you may get lucky in the second, even if you accept your first offer. After that, some extra places are offered informally, especially by private colleges. As soon as you accept an offer, contact the school, go to the town (if you're not there already) and go on the flat hunt, unless you're going to live at home. Accomodation in Irish towns right now is expensive and hard to find, most especially in Dublin. University accomodation goes fast, and Trinity College saves most of theirs for fourth-year students. The more your parents can contribute to rent and living expenses, the better, as a Higher Education Grant (if you're eligible - apply to your local authority in June) contributes only a small fraction of your monthly keep, and Irish courses are not designed for the working student. Universities have scholarships, but they are generally fairly specific, requiring that you be in a music course or achieve over 500 points or, in some cases, be from a certain county. Almost all Irish courses last four years, in common with those in the US.

Hope this helps...
Nora


Ireland and the US

Post 2

That Girl

That's really informative, I just have one comment about the US entry. As a US college student I know for sure your state college doesn't have to give you free tuition if you had a B+ average in high school. They don't have to take you at all, actually, even if you aced high school. This is very unfortunate as I have to go look for a job now. But really great information about all other things!


Ireland and the US

Post 3

Uber Phreak

SATs are not the only test looked at. I applied, and was accepted solely on my ACT score to a perstigious University in my home state.


Ireland and the US

Post 4

Nora - back from the Dublin meet!

Oh, geez smiley - blush! That must be a state-specific thing - I'm from GA, and that's what we use our lottery money for. Sorry! Glad you liked it anyway...

smiley - strawberries


Ireland and the US

Post 5

Nora - back from the Dublin meet!

Great to hear that there's another way. Fill me in - what is the ACT? Is it standardised, or more essay-style, and what areas does it cover? It sounds vaguely familiar...


Ireland and the US

Post 6

Uber Phreak

The ACT is a standardized test covering four timed sections. The sections are math, science method, grammar, and reading comprehension, i think. Its score is caclulated out of 36 for some unknown reason.(at least to me) A score of 26 is average.


Ireland and the US

Post 7

Nora - back from the Dublin meet!

So, a bit broader than the SAT. 36 does sound a bit arbitrary - not something I'd have guessed. Thanks!

smiley - strawberries


Ireland and the US

Post 8

Bubbles the Wandering Thingite Theoretical Mind (I am Heaven.)

The SAT and ACT are not as different as they claim to be. Having taken both twice, the only real difference on the ACT is that the reading comprehension was in specific categories. Effectively though, they are the same, except that the SAT subtracts points for wrong answers and the ACT treats them as blank.


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