A Conversation for Heterosexuality

What a load of ...

Post 1

Bluto

Heterosexuality is actualy defoned as to be sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex.

>In most of today's world cultures, heterosexuality is considered the norm.

Actually it's considered the norm in ALL world cultures for the simple reason that normality is a concept of the majority and as Heterosexuals make up the majority of the worlds poulation - it is the norm!

>Children are often raised with the assumption that they will be heterosexual as adults.

It's a fair assumption seeing as most adults are! In actual fact you don't raise children with any sexual orientation in mind.

>In many places, acquaintances and even friends are assumed to be heterosexual unless they state otherwise.

The sexual orientation of aquaintances and friends is a matter of supreme indifference to me. It would only be important if I was attracted to a person.

>Therefore, most heterosexual people are not conscious of the moment when they 'discovered' their orientation. Since their preconceptions fit the results quite nicely, the moment in question probably passed without notice or is only recognized in later life as a moment of young romance.

Huh?!

>In some cases, social conditioning may cause heterosexuals to be over-optimistic about the long-term chances of their relationships. In reality, about half of all heterosexual marriages end in divorce. And on average, studies show that 40% of heterosexual adults in marriages have affairs1. Percentages of these phenomena in unions formed by gay and bisexual people are not known at this time.

Well since by definition Bisexual people are having sex with both genders, then it'd be faur to say a high percentage aren't 'faithful'.

>Nevertheless, many heterosexuals maintain a blind faith that their current or future marriage will escape these pitfalls without any special action on their part. While this optimism is ultimately justified for many people, it has disastrous consequences for others whose lives become tarnished by nasty divorce and/or child custody disputes, outrageous alimony payments, or debilitating family conditions like domestic violence or incest.

Are you suggesting that Homosexual people never have blind faith, aree from unpleasant break ups, domestic violence and incest?


>There is nothing at all wrong with heterosexuality,

Phew! thank's for that - I was getting worried for a while!

>Heterosexual people have access to a number of social and legal benefits that may or may not be available to gay and bisexual people, depending on the laws of their local area. These include:

>The ability to attend school without receiving physical harassment or grade discrimination based solely on sexual orientation. Ability to attend proms and other social dances with one's partner of choice.

People are bullied at schools for all sorts of reasons - Very few people are openly gay at school, and most school age gay people haven't even realised it when at school. As for Proms - Even being Heterosexual doesn't mean you get the Prom date of your choice.

Ability to have sex with a consensual adult in the privacy of one's home within or outside the bounds of marriage without being arrested for it, serving time in jail, paying a fine, being forced to take inappropriate gender-based hormones, or being put to death.

That's also true for Gay and bisexual people in most of the civilised world!

>The chance to seek and retain employment and housing, purchase goods and services, and join clubs and social organisations without receiving refusals based solely on sexual orientation. The ability when employed to get joint medical insurance for one's spouse and their children.

That's also true for Gay and bisexual people in most of the civilised world!

The ability to join the military to defend one's country, and to serve without needing to lie about one's personal life. The right during and after service to receive advantages agreed upon during enlistment such as educational benefits, veterans benefits, and so forth.

Again, that's also true for Gay and bisexual people in most of the civilised world! There are some backward thinking countries - but that's changing.

The legal right to get married. Plus social approval for marrying and staying married.

>Tricky one - Marriage can only be entered into in a religious ceremony where there is the possibility of children. That to me is the definition of a marriage. If a couple love each other, what difference does a marriage certificate make?

>The ability to attain citizenship in a foreign country upon one's marriage to a loved one from that country.

No argument from me there, it's wrong. But the commitment must be provable.

>The assumption that a child born to one married partner belongs to both partners. Also, the ability to adopt a child from the state, or to adopt a child from your partner's previous relationship.

There's no such assumption! Children don't 'belong' to their parents!

Incontestable rights to property without a will in instances where one marriage partner dies. The ability to file taxes jointly, hold joint bank accounts, get joint credit, and to share a mortgage or sign a joint lease without hassle.

True - but is also true for long term same-sex couples. Anybody who dies intestate over the age of 25 is a fool.

>The right to a court hearing during divorce and/or child custody disputes.

So does everybody!

>The right to hospital visitations in case a partner gets ill, and the right to determine their care in case of incapacitation.

So does everybody!

Assumed right to arrange and attend the burial of a loved one when they die. Social condolences over the loss of a loved one.

So does everybody!

Ability after a spouse dies to receive their retirement, pension, veteran and other benefits as their widow or widower.

See remarks about wills!

Ideally, these benefits would be equally available to gay and bisexual people. However, in most societies some or all benefits are withheld unless you are heterosexual.

They are actually witheld if you are unmarried and can't prove your the next of kin. Nothing to do with being heterosexual - it's happened to many Heterosexual couples.

This could have been a good article - but it's been written wit a lot of predjudices and assumptions that aren't born out by facts.


What a load of ...

Post 2

Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession

This is a very, very long response. It repeats itself in many places. I will respond briefly, as I am the author of the article. However, I will not respond multiple times to what is basically the same argument. Neither will I necessarily continue the conversation further if another, very long response is given. I respect your right to your opinion, Bluto. But I do not have to honor your opinion with debate.

1) (Heterosexuality is the norm.) The majority condition is not the same as 'normal.' More people are brunette than blond by far, but it is not abnormal to be blond. Both hair colors are normal, as are all orientations.

2) (It's a fair assumption seeing as most adults are! In actual fact you don't raise children with any sexual orientation in mind.)
Children are indeed frequently raised with expectations that they will get married, have children, and so forth. This implies heterosexuality. And while the majority of children will indeed grow up to be heterosexual, it is a very unsafe assumption to make when you consider that about 1/3 of teen suicides occur over sexual orientation issues.

3) (...by definition Bisexual people are having sex with both genders.) This is untrue. Please see the entry on bisexuality. Even if you are determined to view orientation through the lens of sex alone, they will have sex with both genders at some point in their lives. At any given time, they will typically be with one person of one gender.

4) (Are you suggesting that Homosexual people never have blind faith, aree from unpleasant break ups, domestic violence and incest) No such assumption has been made. The article specifically states that statistics for other orientation aren't known. Did you not read that?

5)(People are bullied at schools for all sorts of reasons - Very few people are openly gay at school, and most school age gay people haven't even realised it when at school. As for Proms - Even being Heterosexual doesn't mean you get the Prom date of your choice) In america and Britain countries, the median age for coming out is now 16-17. Those of us in earlier generations may not be aware of this fact, since it was 22-23 as little as a generation ago. Of course teens are bullied for all sorts of reasons. Some are bullied for being a racial minority, for instance, which is equally bad in my book. Being turned down by a potential mate is not institutional discrimination, whereas being told by your principal that the date who accepted your offer can't come is.

6) (On various social and legal benefits: That's also true for Gay and bisexual people in most of the civilised world!) Even within the civilized world, it is not always true. In America, gay people can't openly join the military, get married, adopt children in most states, and so forth. Our Supreme Court only struck down broad illegality of gay sex acts a couple of weeks ago. Similarly, many otherwize civilized countries in Asia and South America have very strict laws.

7) (Marriage can only be entered into in a religious ceremony where there is the possibility of children. That to me is the definition of a marriage. If a couple love each other, what difference does a marriage certificate make?) By your definition, heterosexual people who can't have children should be able to get married. I think that's pretty hard on impotent men, frigid women, and women past menopause. The certificate matters because it carries legal privileges in most countries, encourages fidelity by both partners, and carries social approval that can't be garned by remaining faithful outside marriage.

8) (About citizenship for a committed partner: But the commitment must be provable.) Exactly my point. Commitment isn't provable if there is no signatory document to sign like a marriage certificate or domestic partnership certificate.

9) (Children don't 'belong' to their parents!) In most countries, they do for all legal purposes unless the state removes the child from the home. Please check the laws in your local area. You'd be surprised.

10) (Comments that many benefits are available once a will is made.) The majority of people do not have wills. And this varies by class. Lower class people are less able to hire lawyers, and are less likely to understand what a will can do for them. Upper class people have wills much more often. General laws and practices make the same rights available to everyone regardless of class. In cases where rights and benefits are deemed fundamental, wills aren't legally necessary. However, there are often double standards that leave gay people out in cases where the state does not require a will.

11) ([These benefits] are actually witheld if you are unmarried and can't prove your the next of kin. Nothing to do with being heterosexual - it's happened to many Heterosexual couples.] The difference is that heterosexuals (even very poor ones) have the option to get married, while gay people in most countries don't.

12) (This could have been a good article - but it's been written with a lot of predjudices and assumptions that aren't born out by facts.) I feel, Bluto, that *your* response is riddled with prejudice and assumptions of your own. I have tried to counter these, but ultimately your opinion is your own business. My article, meanwhile, was viewed by many people on its way to becoming an edited article at this site. You are the first to raise objections, and I have received a much higher number of thanks. I will console myself with the knowledge that you can't please everyone with such a controversial subject. Peace out.


What a load of ...

Post 3

Bluto

I'm using 'normal' to mean that which is the most common and I'm not implying that anything that in not normal is abnormal. I would say that the norm for hair colour was brown and blonde was less common. abnormal tends to have derogatory overtones and that's not what I meant.

As for my opinion - what opinion was I expressing? I was just correcting what I saw as inaccuracies in your article. I'd be interested to hear what you think my prejudices are.

For the record, I have no problems with people who are Gay, straight, bisexual or just plain undecided. My truckis with people who think that their problems are caused by an imagined nanny society that frowns on one aspect of their life. In actual fact, 99% of people don't care a hoot about other peoples sexual preferences.


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