h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

now what was it called? dang. it was in stone harbor, nj, usa. let me see if i can find it.....

Duped? No, I realized that their "Fair Trade" coffee is only a small portion of what they sell. But they do sell it, and that is an important point.

I also realize that the economic conditions in the "third world" are far more complex than anything an executive at a coffee company in Seattle can solve. If Starbucks bought every last scrap of fair trade coffee, more money would flow to some people in those countries, but it would not change the political systems and lack of infrastructure that affect their lives. To be effective, the money flowing into the regions has to be directed towards changes that will have permanent effects for future generations.

Fair Trade coffee does not do that. Fair Trade coffee just makes us yuppies feel good about paying more for our expensive goods. Sending a dime to "Doctors without Borders" goes a lot further.

That's a really defeatist attitude.

On the one hand you're saying, "Starbucks is great because a small proportion of its coffee is Fair Trade". On the other: "Fair Trade coffee does nothing."

To a certain extent, you're right. For as long as Fair Trade remains the smallest proportion of the coffee sold by Starbucks, it will have very little impact. However, if the policy changed to be, say 80%, 90% or, ideally, 100% Fair Trade, then it would have a significant impact.

If corporations like Starbucks start spending their money on Fair Trade products (and I'm not talking just about coffee here) then the middle-men such products bypass will realise that the world no longer accepts the oppressive practices that are currently the norm.

Rob.

I think what you meant was "duplicitous." That I'll admit to.

It's not that I don't think the fair trade campaign doesn't do any good, I just don't think it does lasting good. It brings more money to people who don't have it now, making their lives easier, but it does not change the underlying political and economic causes that made them poor to begin with. Without further action, the change might result in the now-better-off people simply replacing the current "middle men" and exploiting still other people.

I buy fair trade products when I see them, I think Starbucks should be recognized for the little they do for it, but I maintain that other organizations and approaches are superior in creating lasting change.

I agree that other ideas/organisations are better. But why not support both? That way, the poor get wealthier by selling Fair Trade; meanwhile other organisations are changing things to ensure that they don't go back to being exploitative?

And I don't think Starbucks deserves any special treatment. If 20% Fair Trade, 80% exploitative deserves some kind of award, then the world is a sick, sick place.

Can I say that I disagree with the comments made that Fairtrade does'nt achieve change!!
It takes alot to change governments and big industry practice and oppression. Fairtrade buy from very poor communities and supports the improvement of the community, buy giving the people control over there own lives, extra money for health and education and provide massive improvements in working conditions! Most(ALL I think but am not willing to be corrected on one or two possible exceptions) FT produce is ORGANIC, so no nasty pesticide/herbicides.
Companies like starbucks can only take the blame fo there addiction to profit over there compassion for there suppliers and meanwile only being tokenistic by having a very small percent of fair trade available. If they did really believe in fairtrade rather than fat profits they would be be striving towards having 100% fairtrade coffee available!
Z.

Good point, Zarniroop!

Every little bit counts, but until Starbucks is willing to sacrifice its massive profits for the health and welfare of its workers, the system will be reinforced.

I think a boycott would help - but only if you go in to the shop and say "Is this coffee Fair Trade?"... when they say some of it is, you ask how much, they say not much, you say "Well, I guess I'll have to get my coffee elsewhere..."

btw I did mean defeatist...

could it be said that balance is necessary? look, why does starbucks exist? why was it created? like other businesses, it was created to make money, dont be surprised by its profit hunger. do i support this goal? no. but in a macchiavellian sense, i'm not surprised by a corporation being ridiculously greedy.

now, starbucks has made the move to fair trade, not a large move, but a move none the less. should the FT program be expanded? absolutely! however, we need to keep in mind that Starbucks isnt a humanitarian organization. they worship making a profit. they are willing to do ft, but only as long as it is profitable.

perhaps the challeng here is to find a way to make ft a more profitable enterprise. is this possible? i would like to think so.

Hi U,
The way to make Fairtrade more viable is definitely by exposing Starbucks tokenism as a profit grabbing publicity stunt and challenging them to increase the amount of FT coffe they purchase over a definite time period, say 50% in 5 years and also supporting other fairtrade products by buying them when given a choice.
Challenge starbucks and other greedy corps to put humans and the environment before profits and take responsibility for there actions rather than just painting themselves green and saying we're doing something when in reality they are doing Little good!
*rant*
Z.

I see your point Z. It looks like there are two ways to view the whole fair trade thing (i'm not saying which is correct either by the way).
I think alot of people view the whole FT thing as a huge corporation that started out small trying to return to its roots so to speak. Before Starbucks was a huge giant ugly company bent on world domination, they were the quiet little coffee shop on the corner. They recognize that they've gotta make a profit (corporate eat or be eaten strategy) but they also want to be the nice guy. The look at Starbucks and they want it to be true, they want to see a large corporate blob with a heart deep down inside. This is also certainly what Starbucks would have us to believe as well.
Now, the other side of the coin seems to be those that view FT as nothing more than a marketing ploy by S.bx to portray themselves with the aforementioned image. If this is the case, then S.bx is nothing more than a giant corporate hypocrite, playing the image without the heart behind it. This sounds more like a large corporation, but less like the Starbucks of the past.
When did Starbucks go from being chic to being labelled as a huge corporate entity?
The one thing that sort of bothers me is having a low oppinion of Starbucks because they aren't reforming their corrupt policies fast enough. They have come to power only over the last 10 years, and seem fairly new on the huge, giant, heartless corporate scene (ie walmart and mcd's have been their much longer). I say give them time to prove if they are serious or not. If FT is another marketing ploy, it will go away, if not, then it will still be here in a couple years, hopefully expanded.
So, is there a way to make FT more profitable to monolithic corporations - this will lead to its expansion faster than any other method.

I don't care that a corporation wants to make profits. I don't think profits are as important as people, and we have to tell them that their actions are evil.

FairTrade coffee may not be the solution to all of life's problems for the exploited workers of coffee giants, but it should be given *real* support, and not just so that people can sip their lattes in New York without feeling guilty...

I think everyone who has posted here in defence of Starbucks needs to wake up and see that they are doing more to harm the environment and destroy the lives of the workers than a token amount of FairTrade can make up for.

If I cut down five hundred trees, and then plant fifty, we're still short 450 trees...

Wake up and smell the coffee... so to speak :P

I don't get it. I think the way to encourage Starbucks to sell more Fair Trade coffee is to go into their shops and buy it all up, not to attack the company. If it turns out to be their best seller, they will start selling more.

To use the tree metaphor, if you run into the forest and burn down those 50 saplings because there ought to be 500, you're making the situation worse.

Starbucks Fair Trade effort is a fledgling effort - they have only been selling the coffee for about 8 months. Encourage it, don't stomp it out.

Also keep in mind that in much the USA it is difficult to find Fair Trade coffee anywhere else, so Starbucks selling Fair Trade coffee is a major advance. If you go to the Transfair USA web site, it only lists two US sellers of Fair Trade coffee - Peet's and Starbucks.

Boycott if you must, but do it selectively. Don't buy the Yukon blend, but buy three times as much Fair Trade from Starbucks as you need (give it away to your friends) so it flies off their shelves. They are driven by profits, and that won't change unless you live in a fairy-tale world. And give some money or volunteer for an organization that does some lasting good too

Actually, when Starbucks introduced Fairtrade, they excused the small proportion by saying they would wait until they saw the demand for more. Now it has proven popular, and they refuse to increase the quantity, saying that there isn't enough Fairtrade coffee being produced... this is a bald-faced lie!

...refer to my earlier post... (number 19)

*Naive comment*
But surely big companies don't lie in the quest for fat profits!
*removes tongue from cheek*

Z.

How about attacking your local Coffee shop for not even bothering to use FT Coffee? Why must it be only the successful businesses that take the hit. Some people should be writing to Starbucks twice a week telling them that FT is a good thing and that they like Starbucks coffee very much. If you did this (using fake names & addresses) you will find that you achieve much more than yapping in these chat rooms and smashing windows on may day.

Corruption in the 3rd World is responsible for so much more than Big business. If you stop the coffee exports these countries will fall in to more extreme poverty. That really hurts. I would rather work 18 hrs a day for nearly nothing than sit around all day for absolutely nothing.

Hey P.G. (funny that's a name of a brand of tea that doesn't support fairtrade either unless it's sold under the price they normally pay for 'slave' picked leaves)
I don't drink coffee but I buy fairtrade tea and chocalate, unfortunately there isn't much else that is fair traded, but look at history of these three products and what do they have in common - rich people bought them and enslaved people to grow more and more in many parts of the world these plantations haven't moved very far in there working conditions since the bad ol' days of slavery and fast bucks.
Starbucks is quite happy keeping the status quo and keeping slaves in slavery while indulging in tokenism.

Z.

Because generally a local coffeeshop does not buy massive amounts of coffee - Starbucks does. If we target them to change their ways, it has a far greater impact on the world than some two-bit operator.

But you're right - if you can convince a local shop to buy Fairtrade, then buy from them, Starbucks might get the message...


Or, they might assume demand for their own Fairtrade has decreased, and further reduce the proportion of Fairtrade they sell...

Fair trade has nothing to do with quantity. Even some of the individuals here buy FT coffee why can't your local? CoffeeBucks have already got the message. The message is "currently most people don't give a damn". Hardly anybody cares if its FairT or SlaveT. When the people change CoffeeBucks will change. Unfortunately you are in the minority at the moment. Most people rate price over guilt.

Ask your supermarket where the FT Coffee, if possible speak with the manager, and ask your friends to do the same. Supermarkets are changing to include more organically grown produce because of concerns over the popularity. I would concentrate my efforts their.

Oops "There" not "Their".

Fair Comment PG.
Just aboy to do a search to see if there's an entry for fairtrade!

Z.