A Conversation for The Phoenix

The Phoenix is FEMALE

Post 1


The Phoenix is female. It represents the Chinese Yin, which symbolizes feminity & the Heavenly Empress. The Chinese Dragon represents Yang, symbolizing manliness & the Jade Emperor of the Heavens.

Whoever said that the Phoenix is male is VERY WRONG & MISINFORMED.smiley - star

The Phoenix is FEMALE

Post 2


I, being female...find that point EXTREMELY interesting.

I happen to be interested in mythology and the such like i.e. dragons and phoenixes and this has given me ideas for my GCSE corse work.

Thanks for this fab bit of info.

smiley - biggrinsmiley - biggrinsmiley - magic


The Phoenix is FEMALE

Post 3


I totally agree that fenix was a female bird when depicted mingling with a dragon, still it is also true to be accompanied with another of its kind, which means that one of them was a male and the other obviously a female. It is also true that the idea you presented is of an early period, but the tradition was kind enough to preserve the other version to enable the idea of the happy marriage (for most of the marriages were and still are due to an arangement between families, whereas the bride and the groom had nothing to say - fortunatelly there were some exceptions) that is, they both represented a happy marriage and a happy couple; sometimes they were guided to the Paradise of Immortals by the fenix itself ('should I sell: themsleves)

FYI: In chinese it is called: Feng Huang

Besides, China isn't the only place on earth that was familliar with fenix and (to disappointment of some) most of them were in fact male.

The Phoenix is FEMALE

Post 4


Pardon me but, even the ancient Egyptians, Sumerians & Monggols know that the Phoenix is a female. How else can it lay the egg from which it would be reborn from after its fiery death.smiley - star

The Phoenix is presently an IT

Post 5


Actually, there are alternate legends suggesting that the Phoenix is simply reborn straight from the ashes rather than leaving behind an egg. Granted the 'egg theory' would appear to be the original and thus most reliable theory, those alternate legends could be the more popular ones for a reason.

This side of the legend has even immersed itself into pop culture! The Harry Potter books and movies are a good example. The schools headmaster owns a male Phoenix which regularly rebirths using the aforementioned alternate theory.

Then again...the very notion of 'owning a Phoenix' goes against the legend in so many ways it's unfathomable that they used that ressurection method in any other way than to avoid confusion sprung from a male Phoenix laying an egg. Thus my example is left with a gaping flaw and I am presently left with little evidence supporting my current arguement.

But I revel in debate, so let's keep this thread alive, shall we? Consider me a sort of neutral ground...a referee even. I'll make my purpose here very clear right now, I'm simply here to disprove anything and everything I possibly can. Expect to be contradicted by me on both sides (Unless, of course, your arguement is logically and mythologically sound) and expect me to take none.

Well then, now that that's out of my system...let's get on with the debate!

The Phoenix is presently an IT

Post 6


I seriously think that the argument for weither the Phoenix is male or female began with the confusion between the Phoenix & the Chinese Guardin of the Southern Gate, Suzaku. Both are similar, as both are (somewhat) magical creatures. Only difference is.... Suzaku is male. smiley - starsmiley - moon

The Phoenix is presently an IT

Post 7


There's one thing missing in your otherwise agreeable arguement. You left out the fact that the Phoenix's gender is currently under debate...well, here at h2g2 anyway. But this opinion can't be overlooked, it provides a good point. And I highly doubt that every single on this board will ever reach a common agreement, we all have different opinions as to what the Phoenix's gender is and why.

So basically thumbs up. I can't agree with you (not yet at least), but i'm glad we're getting more than just bickering back and forth.

The Phoenix is presently an IT

Post 8


Well.... besides the fact that the Phoenix creates a nest (made from rare spices) from which it will reincarnate, I have no more knowledge about 'her'.smiley - star

P.s.- Are the smilies still unfuntioning?

The Phoenix is presently an IT

Post 9


Slow down for a moment. You initiated this thread with the intent of saying that the phoenix is female, and supported your point by saying that it must be female due to the speculation that it lays an egg when it burns in it's nest rather than is reborn from the ashes as a chick. Now you're saying that it is reborn rather than it lays an egg? smiley - erm

Reply to Aldegard's post:

Post 10


The only cultures that believed in more than one Phoenix at a time are those in Thailand. Any other pphoenix legend specifically states that only one existed at a time. Even cultures with Phoenix-like beings believed in only one at a time (or only one at all for that matter!)
Examples like the Japanese with Suzaku and the Egyptians with their one-at-a-time Phoenixes are quite fitting ones.

As for your declaration that in china and most other legends, the Phoenix was male...where's the evidence? I know for a fact that the Phoenix in china represented, among other things, the Empress and Female Energy, why would you think that made it male? and I've rarely read legends that had a definite account of wether or not their Phoenix was male or female. Give us sources please!

Funny Random Article

Post 11



I implore you to read this unbelievably biased article. See how this person goes on and on about the Phoenix being evil and satanic.

Whoever wrote this is obviously a little off. They base their claims on Christian views rather than the views of the religeon of the people who have the Phoenix as a mythological figure. They jump at obvious coincidences, bend the myths to their favor, and even blatantly contradict themselves multiple times.

Funny Random Article

Post 12


smiley - starRAAAARRRH!!! HOW I DESPISE ALL THOSE IMBECILE HUMANS!! Those people are nothing more than fanatical non-believers who disguise themselves under the name of God. We have people like those for centuries:

1. The Catholic church that put people with great discoveries (like the guy who discovered that the Earth revolves around the sub) into prisons.

2. The movement of condemning witches, resulting in the killings of many innocents (humans & animals).

3. The Puritanism that condemned fairies as lesser demons.

4. The Crusaders.

5. & many, many, many, many more.

Thanks for the Website info. Maybe a friend of mine can pop in a virus or two.smiley - biggrin Kidding.

I'll try to get more info on the phoenix. But the next info I give may be my last. NO! I'm not dying! Just that I might ran out of info by then.smiley - fullmoon

The biology of the Phoenix

Post 13


The information that I have laid out before you come from the archives of the Cryptozoological Society of London (CSL), a Society dedicated to studying, researching, documenting (if possible) & finding the truth in the name of 'Cryptozoology' (ancient Greek for 'hidden' & 'animal'). They have been researching since the Society's charter was signed on April 1st of 1848.
For over 150 years, the CSL has conducted detailed investigations into all manner of creatures which mainstream zoologists claim not to exist. Decades of work have gone into building up an impressive archive of written & physical evidence from the far-flung corners of the Earth. Now, I shall share their knowledge.


Latin Name : Phoenos immortalis

Habitat : Light woodland

Lifespan : 500-1000 years

Size : Wingspan is c. 8-12 feet (2.5-3.5 meters)

Information Source : CSL review

Distribution : India, with migration route to Egypt via Middle East

Life :
It resembles a very large eagle with red & golden feathers, rainbow-hued wings & scarlet feet. Its diet & feeding habits have remained a mystery till now, 'cause noone has ever seen it feed. Its song & scent was so beautiful that all the birds would follow it. When its plumage caught the sun it would appear to flare & shimmer in the sky.

As the phoenix approached the end of its allotted span, it would begin the long migration west. Flying to the Arabian peninsula, it would gather leaves & branches of cinnamon, myrrh & many other spices, before travelling on to Phoenicia (modern Lebanon). Here it would construct a pyre out of the materials it had gathered, strike its beak against a flint, set the pyre & itself ablaze, & become completely consumed by the flames. Now there are 2 explainations as to what happens next, both are still in serious debate by cryptozoologists till this very day :

1. By the next day, a tiny worm-like creature could be seen amongst the embers, growing quickly into a bird exactly like its parent.

2. Because there was only ever one phoenix, it would have reproduced by parthenogenesis (developing an egg without being fertilised), a phenomenon common among chickens, thus proving that the phoenix is female. The resulting offspring was thus an identical clone of its mother, & the incineration was probably a mechanism to encourage an internally-produced egg to hatch. This is what scientists call (& have always dreamed of achieving) genetic immortality.

After 3 days, the new phoenix gathers up its predecessor's ashes & takes them to Heliopolis in Egypt, location of the Sun-God's temple, before flying back east to India.

Symbol :
Any creature that sets itself on fire in order to guarantee its survival is bound to compel attention. The phoenix is a symbol of rebirth, but also has a lifecycle defying biology. It embodies :
1. the purifying power of fire.
2. imperial grace & elegance.
3. the Chinese female principle, yin.
4. immortality & rebirth.
5. purity & piety.

The phoenix's appearance in the Far East was an auspicious omen, heralding the birth of a great ruler or the dawn of a new age. The Chinese called it the feng huang. It was the symbol of the empress & the female principle, yin. Classical scholars learned of the bird through the Egyptians, Hesiod & Herodotus both wrote about it. Later, the Christians were impressed with many of its features, seeing an allegory for Christ's resurrection in the 3 days it took for the young phoenix to develop, & arguing that it was free of corruption & sin because it never ate flesh. Igor Stravinsky made a play called the "Firebird" which shows life, death & renewal.

Death :
The medieval Europeans were to prove the phoenix's undoing. Their rapacious demand for spices lead to the over-exploitation of the Arabian spice groves on which the phoenix depended. With a population of one, the species could neither adapt nor evolve. By the end of the 16th century, the phoenix's fragile lifecycle had been fatally interrupted, & one of nature's most extraordinary creations had been lost forever.

Renewal :
The phoenix may have been lost from our world, but it is still with us, spiritually. Humankind must learn to understand & accept nature, & struggle to protect it. We must learn to not give up & to get up after a fall, like the phoenix rising back from death. Most important, we must learn to carry on with life.

CSL's point of reference :
Information required from research on ancient media (scrolls, carvings, tapestry, iluminatad manuscripts, etc) from Hindu, Greek, Roman, Eqyptian, Arabian, Chinese & Japanese sources.

Well, I hope this is enough explanation to you. These are all the information I could get my hands on. This may be my last post. Thank you for giving so much interest in this subject, I really apprecite it. If you are interested in any more concerning cryptozoology, you may go to my post entitled "Cryptozoology Expert, MasLightningWolf". Just use the Search, or go to my Space.

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