h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Time is in its very essence, a measurement. Finite only because the measurment system that we use is finite.

Which really is the whole point of measurement in the first place, and one of its instuments, to create a means of describing the world around us in finite terms. And yet.....

Have we as humans lost something in creating a finite measurment for something that just as well may be infinite?

Is it possible to concieve of a infinite universe?

Time seems to have a lot to do with perspective. Times when one is having fun fly by while times when one is miserable passes slow. Which begs the question, can time really be considered to be a finite means measurment? Is it more closely related to perception than it seems? One would think that a clock doesn't slow down just because one wants it to, and yet we find ourselves wondering, "where did the time go?"

Last point to ponder...
What if time is like the uncertainty principle...? Going its own way until something causes it to change. Once thought rests on time, then the way that time behaves is altered because of that thought. What if time is not really so steady and sedate as we think but fluid in backwards and forwards motion? Which would really leave us with no other description of the world that we live in, we could only truly say where we were at this very moment...now. The eternal now. The now would be the only world to live in and experience because it would consist of today, tomorrow, and yesterday.

Time holds as much for the inquisitive mind as Truth maybe....

It's a very interesting subject to try to wrap your brain around. What exactly is time? A measurement, like you said, of something that is infinite, which by all accounts seems to make no sense, to me at least,can you explain more?

Hmmmm how to reply?

I'm thinking that the main problem, as I had written before with time is that most people concieve of it as being linear, i.e. having a begining and having an end. Yet, what if it were true that time is not linear? Can you imagine the ramifications of that? If time isn't linear, then what is it?

My theory is that time is not linear, it is an infintessimal now. An eternal now. All of time that ever was and ever will be exists in the now.

So how about a metaphor. Imagine a lake. Clear as glass in which you can see the floor. On the floor of the ocean is a picture, a web maybe, (pick however you choose to see time),and you can see all of time that is was and will be as you float along the surface. This is how the that-which-is-truly-you sees time. (fill in what you wish, soul, overself, whatever). Then as you dive under the surface you don't see as much of time as you did before. Now you cannot see all that was, is, or will be, at once. You only see them as linear. Forward to the future of possiblity, past to the choices that were made to get you where you are, and the present. As you touch the lake floor, you can only see that which is occuring right this second. You can visualize the future, remember the past, but that is all.

Again, it all comes down to perspective. And perspective is important when one thinks about time.

But then how, does nonlinear time fit in with the rest of the universe? What I mean is; if time is nonlinear how could the rest of the universe be (linear)? What exactly would that mean? I'm sorry if I'm bugging you with all of these questions, if I am, just tell me to bug off. I'm just very curious about your theory, thanks!
Leeloo

No no, questions refine theory, and I certainly wouldn't want someone to feel that they don't have the right to question my theory. For all I know it could be a moot point as the theory could be wrong! And how would we ever know if it was wrong.

So as to the question of linear. I'm tempted to point out that the definition of a line in geometry refers to a ray that has no endpoints. In otherwords infinite in both directions. (course what that does for the definition of non-linear is anyone's guess). However, I think that I'll leave that alone and instead ask this...whoever said that the univers is linear? Is there a rhyme or reason to the universe. Could it not be that it behaves the same way as time?

Remember that just because we say that time is not linear, that doesn't mean that their isn't some kind of order. That would be another theory. I'm simply saying that time is not a steady progression of events with a discernable begining and an end. I'm saying that time is a man made measurement system to describe the world around him, and that I do not believe that life, the universe, and everything to coin a phrase is behaves this way. I believe that time is an infinite now. All of time that ever was or ever will be exists now.

To digress a little, a large part of why I believe this is so has to do with my spiritual beliefs. If you like, I'll go into that a little. However, I don't want to cause anyone to stumble, so I warn you that just as unorthodox/strange my time theory is so is my religious theory. Both of which are a culmination of all that I've read and all of the things that I simply feel to be true.

The one problem I have with the notion that the future and the past exist in the now, is where the now is! And if it is a physical place, then is there room for free will? If there is no free will and everything we do is pre-ordained then why do we punish people for wrong-doing when they have no choice in the matter? If the future changes every nanosecond and all futures are recorded and if they are all physical then where do they all go? On the other hand, if the future is based on probability, then can we discover what might happen if we carry on as we are avoiding those things we don't like. In Hindu philosophy there is a place called The Akashic Record where you can discover the past or future, and is reached through meditation. There is a danger though, there is in this region (Akasha) all the good and evil thoughts that there have ever been. All monsters and angels exist in this causal plane. It is also the place where our dreams and nightmares are reality.

I think that perhaps it doesn't matter where the now is. (where it is in reference to what is what I'm really thinking)

But as to free will...something I've even written an article on, that will probably not make it into the edited guide as it is theory and belief rather than hard fact, I will say this, and realize I've left proven fact way behind the dust,

Time has no effect on that which we would call our souls. I'm making the assumption that you believe in reincarnation. Even if you don't, again, my personal belief. The idea is that to exist at this level of human experience we must subject ourselves to things that are inherently foreign to that which we truly are, our souls for lack of a better word. Time means nothing to the soul that you are. Neither does choice, or freedom. The human experience means everything. The culmination of all the lives that you've lived up till the moment of now make up that soul.

This being the case, time, as a linear description, is grossly inadequate to a being that can exist in the past, or the future, or a possible past, or a possible future.

Actually this ties in with the Akashic record if you think about it.

hello. I hope you don't mind me joining in. I'm not very familiar with reincarnation, or indeed your beliefs on the nature of the soul, but I'd like to clarify something.
You said that time means nothing to the soul, that were time linear it could not be relevant to a being that can exist in the past, present and future, but this seems to be putting the soul squarely in the grasp of a sequential, linear time-frame.
is this a contradiction? have I just misunderstood (most likely)...

Wow, I had to re-read the posts here so that I didn't mislead you somehow.

So let's see, the question: How is it that a soul can be said to exist outside of sequential time, and yet still exist within the past,present, and future?

That is an interesting question, because it would seem that there is an alternate timeline (for the soul only) independant of the soul on earth, by reading my explanation.

I haven't given this much thought to tell you the truth. However shooting from the hip I would say that, yes there is an alternate timeline. I don't know what you would measure it in, (lifetimes maybe)but I would think that this timeline would mark the development of your soul. For whatever reason, the human experience appeals to us on some level, and some of us come back an awful lot. You've met these people before. The ones who seem to be so much more in tune with the world around them. And you've met the ones who certainly have to be here for their first trip. Everthing about life is so new and amazing to them, they live life like it is a cup that can never be filled to much for them.

But this still doesn't change anything in the sense that, we are not as souls a part of the timeline that exists, man-made mind you to describe the world around us, on earth.

I'm thinking that this brings up other question too like:

a)so if there is another timeline who started it?
b)do souls die?
c)what happens at the end of the timeline?

good questions to ponder I think.

In any event the thing to remember is something I've sort of treated as a life axiom is something I got from Richard Bach once.

Want proof that you don't have it all figured out?
Look around,
If you're still here, you haven't.

and the last sentance in Illusions, "everything I've said in this book could be wrong."

And I whole heartedly agree.

ah, I think thats a good way to be. we're probably never *really* going to know whats going on (well, I never do anyway), but it's still good to talk about it, cos that can get you closer to the truth.

I guess the problem with this alternate lifeline is that we can't 'measure' it in the same way as we would a regular lifeline (years, events etc.) but at the same time, as people, thats the only way of measuring time we have.

on a slight tangent, you were talking before about infinity, I can't remember the context, but do you think infinity is possible?

Infinity.


That is a really wierd question, because on the one hand if you believe in infinity, you are agreeing to the fact that time has a linear type progression, in which there is no begining-no end, and yet time continues in a steady "measureable" progression. And my whole view on time is based on the fact that time is fluid.

So I think that infinity is possible. Perhaps even a truth of the universe. We even have laws, that state matter cannot be created nor destroyed, only change state.

But, what do we mean by infinity? Do we mean that time never stops, or our place in it never stops? Would time stop if we were no longer there to witness it?

It's like the argument for wether a tree makes noise if it falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it.

I think about the idea of a multi-verse alot these days. I've read a little Micheal Moorcock, and the concept of many different univereses existing interdependant of each other, with a mirror image or some semblance of you, seems to ring true. In which case infinity seems to be an even stranger question because now you are talking about more than one universe at a time.

Whoa, I really need to go to bed, I'm off the deep end again.

I know, my brains going fuzzy. I've been off looking at entries on infinity, but they all conflict and they don't seem to be able to answer the questions, its quite upsetting

speaking of michael moorcock- have you read the dnacers at the end of time, where they have the loop thing going on?

I read that one quite some time ago, I don't really remember what was going on there.

Refresh me.

I don't know, I read it years ago, but I remember something about the world ending, so they make a loop and kind of suspend time, and they can also do time travel- I can't remember whether he made it sound reasonable or not; I don't think there was any attempt to explain what was going on scientifically, or even philosophically...

It was just you mentioning him that made me think of it, but I must remember- books aren't real

perhaps not, but the thoughts that they spawn are very real.

if a book, or a film or tv programme for that matter, is well written its easy to fall into believing it to be true when really its just rhetoric.
books and stuff which make you think about these unknown concepts are great for ideas, but philosophically its dangerous. god, I'm slipping into plato mode... he thought all art got in the way of truth- I don't agree with that, but I do worry myself sometimes when I start believing what the tv tells me...
I guess when you're talking about time there has to be so much speculation or no one would ever be able to say anything... bit like god actually...

Time is a way of organizing events sequencialy. Many people have a strange sense of time e.g. My friend says "I'll see you later" and I know that later means some time in the future, today tommorow next week etc.
Time flexibility: All the jobs your boss thinks you can do in 8 hours.
Time Tables: When trains, busses etc are supposed to run. NB a train is not late if it is canceled
Time Zone: Lines drawn on a map to indicate areas using to same time.

There are many different dimensions of the resource of Time and when relating to the one for humans, it's a very limited or terminal resource.

Perhaps, because of traditional bad habits, residues of prosperity and ancient superstitions, there is no 20,40, or 100 year quality sustainable program, to stretch time into its other dimensions, to effect our legacy and destiny.

I believe our world recycles energy, matter and time itself, with or without us and every-so-often, as a residue of time.