A Conversation for The Problem of Free Will

All too simple

Post 1

Caius

Putting up regions and assuming that something does or does not exist seems to me pure reductionism. Things would always have to stay what they are. And we would have to stick forever to what we once said or thought about them. It is not so. And does free will mean the same to everybody and all the time? Is it about the decision not to use the tooth brush in the morning? Or about the fact I haven't killed myself yet? Or about the existence of my kids? What I am saying is that everything is constantly changing, even the notions in our head and their processing-conditions. And that this world is much too complex for us to grasp.
All we can do is amuse ourselves by playing the entertaining explanation game. That's why we are here, isn't it?


All too simple

Post 2

Cabby

That's actually an interesting point. Do things always have to stay the way they are?

Let's say that right now we don't have free will. Does that preclude the possibility that we might be destined to acquire free will in the future? Perhaps free-will is something which can only be acquired. Perhaps some of us have it and other's don't? If a deterministic, rule based process is altered by a non-rule based system then the results of the two processes acting together is non-deterministic. Does that make the initial process non-deterministic?

I'm not entirely convinced that the notions of determinism and free will are as tightly linked as suggested in the entry either.
Let's say we don't have free will. All of my actions are predictable and given the same set of event inputs I will always behave in exactly the same way. (As a side note, you could argue that this state is possible whether I have free will or not..). Does that then make the rest of the universe totally deterministic too?

Rocks don't seem to have free will, they stay where they're put largely, and are pretty predictable in their actions. Does that mean that the rest of the universe is deterministic? If so, then we've just disproved free will right there and we can all go home. If not, what's so special about us that makes our internal processing effect the rest of the universe?


All too simple

Post 3

Occasional Hieroglyphic, wanderer in search of the exoteric

Ah, I find the perfect entry to make my point. Let's suppose total free will at the beginning of your existance; you will soon make a choice about something. At that point you have limited every possible choice you could make in the future.

In simple terms, think of Chess. Once you have moved your first pawn you have drastically reduced the number of possible moves left to you. Ask any Chess player.

So, we all had free will at some point but WE have so altered our own personal universe that there is almost no possibilty of any more free choices. If you have children, boy does that alter your freedom. Get married to the most wonderful person in the world and 12 years later things will not neccesarily have developed the way YOU may have wanted them.

Then bring in karma and reincarnation and see how much free will you are likely to have, though that's a whole new subject.


All too simple

Post 4

Martin Harper

You always have options, at every stage of the game. It's just sometimes you convince yourself that you don't... Married? Get a divorce. Children? Run away from them. Own house? Drop the keys through the postbox of the nearest homeless charity. Exams? Write "I am a fish" on every single sheet of paper. It's all been done.


simple to all

Post 5

Hiram Abif (aka Chuang Tzu's Pancreas)

I am reminded (again) of my favorite bit of chinese wisdom (after Dim Sum that is)
"Searching for the meaning of life is like riding an ox, in search of an ox..." What this means is that you are wasting your time thinking around in circles when what really matters has been there with you all the time.....


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