h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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Morning Jerk,

erm who told you about the leather and spikes? lol

so you heard i had a of a headache the day before last, and now you know why lol

wouldnt of thought this was your cup of now i am surprised

Whiplash, isn't it?

I can empathize with the song, but it's actually a violation of the House Rules to post song lyrics like this, since doing so breaks copyright laws, so I've had to the post. Sorry about that!


Mikey

Jerk,

actually i knew it was breaking house rules as the did it to me but i said nothing incase it drew attention to you..nevermind i saw it before they found it

Mikey, (the snitch)

as this has happened to me before i know about this rule, (or the 1 that gets overlooked depending on who's done it), but seeing as Jerk mentioned the artists name i think your being a bit petty, still so long as your having fun online eh

Vamp, whether you mention the artist's name or not has not a bit to do with whether it's a copyright violation.

Using other people's writing without their permission is stealing, plain and simple, and is not allowed anywhere here on h2g2. Copying and posting song lyrics that someone else wrote falls into that category.

There are plenty of websites out there that don't pay attention to this kind of thing, but h2g2 is pretty big on following the law, especially with it being taxpayer funded and all. If you have a problem with that, hootoo may not be the best place for you.

As a writer myself, I will *always* yikes any post that I see to be a copyright violation. I would only hope that other people would do the same if someone was using my writing without permission.

Mikey, (the snitch),

how can Jerk be stealing from the artist? he has not tried to make out its his own work and he isnt trying to make money out of it

i would imagine the artist would be happy for a bit of advertising, might even bump sales! of course thats just a point of view from someone not so narrow minded or petty

yeah i am aware how h2g2/bbc like to lay down the law, (am also aware of who it is and isnt applied too), and by the way dont they do a great job? not..didnt Greg Dyke resign this week cos they up? and before you tell me it wasnt his fault hes just carrying the can for others mistakes guess what - i dont give a monkeys lifes a

'if you have a problem with that, hootoo may not be the best place for you'

is that a polite way of telling me to off? lol i pay my licence ive as much right to be here as anyone, the fact that my opinions arent the same as yours just makes this a more diverse and interesting place, so i dont conform to all beliefs of this site so what?! kissing and agreeing with everything your told to isnt in the either the rules/unofficial rules as far as im aware? unless theres been a recent addition? please correct me on that if im wrong

or not, Metallica rocks

.. and lyrics are available at their very own, official website: http://www.metallica.com/

Taliesin,

here here lol

Vamp, you seem to be a bit vague on copyright law.

Whether something is a violation of *international* copyright law as absolutely nothing to do with whether money is being made on the violation or whether the author's name is appended. It all comes down to taking without permission.

Here's an example. Say you wanted to read one of my books, but didn't want to buy it yourself, so you downloaded a copy someone had a scanned into the internet. That would be a copyright violation (on both the part of you and the person who uploaded it), depriving me of the right to control and sell my work. Wouldn't matter 2 cents that you didn't plan on selling it, or that my name was still listed as the author. It's still illegal.

Whether or not you pay a BBC license as very little to do with whether h2g2 is the place for you. You've made it clear that you think the rules are tosh, and don't think people should have to follow them -- I can tell you quite clearly that this rule will never change, so if you can't deal with that, yes, I do think you'd be better off elsewhere. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of the legal agreement you agreed to when you first registered with the site -- you agreed to follow the House Rules, including the intellectual property provisions.

No one has ever said you have to *agree* with everyone on the site, but it certainly says all over the place that you need to follow the rules on the site -- all of them. And not violating copyright is one of those rules.

Mikey (the snitch),

im not vague on copyright law, your example is completely different, if i could download music off the net i would be listening to it, and getting something for free..all Jerk did was type out the lyrics, and i viewed them same as i would if i was in HMV and they was on the back of a cd

i have made it clear that i dont agree with all the rules, i certainly dont agree with the fact that only some people have to follow them while others break them if and when the situation suits, this 1 i think is a particularly stupid and petty rule, however, disagreeing with the way/how this site is run and whether i am abiding by the rules of this site is 2 completely different matters, dont assume, or think you know what im thinking, you dont

where did i say i dont think people should follow them? i have only said not everyone does, and this seems acceptable considering those that break them, dont twist my words

you think i would be better off somewhere else? you and dozens of others id like to say sorry to dissapoint but you can off

perhaps mikey was referencing the impersonal 'you', as in: "one needs to follow the rules on the site"

For example, one of *my* rules on the site is to give my friends and/or ...



Oh, and ...

Taliesin,

perhaps, depends how your reading it i suppose

is the for women and the for men? course i might be reading that wrong but if i am, not all women drink

Yes, vamp, you are vague on copyright law -- anyone who thinks that copying and posting song lyrics online is, by definition.

The big difference between reading the song lyrics off the booklet in the CD and reading them off here, is that in the latter case, the author GETS PAID from someone purchasing the CD. In this case, the author doesn't get paid. By purchasing the CD, you have bought the rights to listen to that music and to read the lyrics. But you have *not* bought the right to distribute those lyrics to everyone else, even if you're not charging them for it. It is possible to buy those rights, but it would cost quite considerably more than the CD did. Yes, there are tons of websites out there that post song lyrics, and almost every single one of them is breaking the law -- and some have been prosecuted for it.

As far as the rule not applying to everyone, that's hogwash. This rule applies equally to everyone on the site. Now, yes, there *are* song lyrics out there on h2g2. In some cases, they are being used within the realm of "fair use". For example, if you quote just a line or two of song lyrics or the use is in the context of analyzing the song, that's perfectly legitimate under the law.

In other cases, the postings *are* breaking the rules, and are simply there because no one has yikesed! them yet. Believe me, I yikes *every* posting I see that breaks copyright law, regardless of who the poster is. But clearly, I haven't seen every post on the site, and if no one hits the yikes! button, it can't be moderated. If it bothers you that other people have broken this rule but haven't been yikesed! as you have, please hit the button, or tell me where it is, and I will do it for you.

And vamp, don't tell me that you're not just saying that you don't agree with this rule but that you always follow it yourself -- you yourself have broken it, from what I recall. I never said that I know what you're thinking, but I'm quite aware of what I've seen you *doing* and *saying*.

Since the Beeb owns this sandbox, we all should at least attempt to play by their rules.

That being the case, I'd still like to offer my

The current furor over lyrics seems, imo, a bit over the top. Copyright functions to enable the owner of the property to maintain control over that property -- and receive payment. I doubt many singers/songwriters actually give a fig if someone writes down the lyrics to their song, and lets a friend read it. After all, if the song gets air time, the lyrics are 'recorded' in the brains of all who hear it -- that is if the singer enunciates clearly, and the listeners are not too baked (there's a website devoted to misheard lyrics!)... If someone starts making and selling printed copies, or charging for viewing them on a website, that's a whole other matter.

For thousands of years, humans have been sharing songs. Not recordings of other people's songs, but the songs themselves. Some believe sharing music and song may have set the race on the road to sentience, and language. Now the lawyers have stepped in, to the extent whereby if you publically sing 'Happy Birthday', you violate copyright. Not that 'Happy Birthday' could ever have much to do with sentience, but I digress...

Music has become The Music Industry, with lawyers and bean counters in charge, not musicians or songwriters.

When Woody Guthrie was singing hillbilly songs on a Los Angeles radio station in the late 1930s,
he used to mail out a small mimeographed songbook to listeners who wanted the words to his songs. On the bottom of one page appeared the following: "This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright # 154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that's all we wanted to do." W.G.

Mikey (the snitch),

so i disagree with you, that makes me wrong and you right?

you like giving examples dont you? perhaps you like the sound of your own voice..i think you have your example the wrong way round, you might want to re-read that and stick to copying and pasting 'legal' replies off the net cos your getting things confused just answering off your own back

though in your confused example, i knew what you meant and have to say if somebody was reading the lyrics off the back of a cd doesnt mean they intend to buy that cd so the author doesnt necessarily get paid, if i went into HMV today i could look at 20 cd's if i wanted to and not buy any of them, would i be breaking the law? no! dont be so stupid, the same as when i read Jerks journal, he was NOT attempting to take the credit for this bands song lyrics as he mentioned the band, he obviously wasnt attempting to make money from them, he was just sharing an interest of his with his pals..where is the crime? it is a crime because the bbc/h2g2 say so..doesnt mean anyone has to agree with it

different rules on this site for different people hogwash is it? might i suggest you open your eyes and go check out the rules and the unofficial rules, seek out the differences then see who on this site follows which set of rules, who on this site is actively encouraged to break a rule here and a rule there because they are funny or witty when they do it, or who when it has been pointed out that they have infact broken rules they have asked others not to break, they lie their off and TPTB overlook the matter though it appears to be going on under their noses, and speaking of TPTB, well perhaps id be pushing my luck pointing out what they do/dont do..dont tell me thats hogwash when you are clearly naieve as to what go's on around this site

i have seen pages of researchers and aces with complete song lyrics/poetry and pictures that came from offsite, its perfectly legitimate on this site depending on who you are..i cant yikes things myself being 'digibox scum', (saw that term somewhere), but i would prefer that offensive posts and the like remained so everyone could see for themselves what a somebody is, people would rather read the truth in black and white than take someones word for it, though some have been known to deny it anyway and make a complete out of themselves though pals onsite would still speak up for them regardless of who's right and wrong

you yikes everything you see do you that you dont like? would that be everything? i mean im only asking cos some people choose to overlook certain posts depending on who it was that posted it, so this being a self moderating site, do you take pride in going around and sniffing out people to yikes? some posts are very offensive and should be yikesed but do you see it as your personal duty to seek out everything? are you going for an aces badge? if you are this would bode you well

i dont agree with the rule in question though when i broke it i genuinely didnt know why, i went and found out, Amy the ant and Greydesk told me how i could remedy the situation but i got a mail back from h2g2 saying there was no way i could remedy the situation i wasnt having it back on my journal in any shape or form, so you see, 1 rule was applied to me, though another is often applied to others

what have you seen me 'doing'? you'd have to do some pretty intensive lurking to keep up with me, but then seeing as you take your role as researcher so seriously you would probably enjoy that, find anything good?

Taliesin,

i not encouraging anyone to break the rules of this site, however, in my opinion i agree, this rule with regard to lyrics is over the top, though its just my opinion, 1 in this country, (UK), i understand we are still allowed to have, well we were unless thats changed now too? i mean if Blair seeks advice/info off the bbc before deciding whether to go to war perhaps the bbc might want to bring something up about that with him in their next meeting! doesnt mean i expect the rule to be changed im just having my say

Vamp, you seem so confused on so many issues I'm not sure where to start.

This isn't a matter of opinion. It's law. International law. Whether you think it's ridiculous or not, posting lyrics you don't have the rights to is against the law -- ask a lawyer, if you don't believe me.

And when you look at CDs on the shelf, you're usually not seeing the printed lyrics -- there's a reason they put those *inside* the shrink-wrapped CD. They are for the benefit of the person who has purchased the CD, not for the casual browser. Of course, there are definitely places where you can legally see lyrics for free -- for example, if a band owns the copyright to their lyrics (many do not) and chooses to put the lyrics on their website for all to see, that is certainly their right. However, they *still* have the right to forbid others from pasting the lyrics elsewhere -- the fact that they have posted them online in no way negates their rights.

and again, you seem to be completely missing the point in regards to how moderation works on this site. if other people have lyrics or pictures on their pages that haven't been removed, it is NOT because the italics have said "oh, it's okay, that person is on our special list", it's because NO ONE HAS YIKESED IT. Yes, it's entirely possible that some people's pages are yikesed more than others. But again, if it bothers you that much, go yikes those other people's pages -- they will be treated just the same way as you have in this matter. It's not a matter of this rule applying to you and not to others -- it's solely a matter of this rule applying to everyone, but the enforcers only see what is brought to their attention by the researchers. If the researchers do *not* do a sufficient job of moderating their peers on such issues, then the BBC has made it quite clear that we will return to the proactive moderation that was employed in the early days of the BBC takeover of hootoo -- if you are unfamiliar with what that entailed, you might ask around. I'm willing to bet you would like it far less than this.

And no, I never said I go around yikesing everything I don't like. I said that I yikes things that break the law. There's a tremendous difference their, and I'm sorry that you seem unable to discern the difference. This has absolutely nothing to do with posts being offensive (which I virtually never yikes posts for).

And please, don't flatter yourself that I'm "lurking you" -- the only contact I've had with you has been through our mutual friend jerk, here, and the fact that you post in incredibly large volumes to spaces all gurus are supposed to stay subscribed to. If you'd rather the volunteers left you alone, you might be better off not posting in such places where they are assigned to respond.

And no, I'm not "going for an aces badge" -- I've actually been around here longer than that, and have never had, nor ever will, any desire to be an ace -- I have some problems with how they operate. If you had been around here longer, you might well be aware of that -- I'd suggest not jumping to conclusions about people you're so obviously unfamiliar with.

Hi all !!! ***waves his trusty ***

I was wondering where that post journal entry went.
I guess it may have been copyright infringment...my bad

now I can be counted among those who have been silenced
***shakes his fist at t.p.t.b.***
I'll be back (is that copyrighted?)