h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Pegasus.

Thought I'd leave you a link
F19585?thread=4005961&show=20&skip=2880#pi2895

Kinda inspired from the brief conversation we had about atheism on thursday. Not my most coherent argument (most grammatical or well spelled!), but it leads on from what we discussed and hopefully is of interest to you. Don't expect you to comment (these types of thread tend to be fairly vicious!) but thoguht you'd appreciate the ideas contained therein. Post 2891 is the one I mean, paragraph 4 is where I take the lead from what you said.

Thanks for that. You're right, some of it is a bit vicious, but quite interesting.

It's a pity that I'm not going to do RS or philosophy at A level - my teachers tell me that it involves more discussion about things like that than we do at the moment. I'm interested in all the philosophical stuff, but I'm more into science, so I won't be doing it later on.

That's fair enough, although I'll make a prediction that if you do get into quantum and theoretical physics you'll end up with an interest in philosophy, the two are very close. But there's plenty of time for that.

We'll have to wait and see. BTW, exactly how are quantum and theoretical physics close to philosophy?

Well, theoretical physics (which is where quantum wave mechanics started out, like so many things) is that branch where we can't really do experiments, it is the forefront of the subject, right at the leading edge of science. It is inevitably dealing with the big questions about the universe. By 'universe' I mean everything that is, not just the 4 dimensions we experience on a daily basis and within which we operate. There may be a lot more out there. Anyway, when you deal with how this island of causality (i.e. a distinct area within which certain laws and rules apply and define what can happen) this has an impact on other areas.

One immediate issue which many thinkers have sought to address is the limit of what we can know. I.e. is it possible for us to know everything about everything. And the answer seems to be 'no'. Now that has implications for physics in that it tells us that we may not ever fully understand everything about existence.

Equally, if everything we know of has a cause and effect, and if to have meaning then something has to be defined and governed by rules (the letters on this page have no meaning of themselves, it is only because you and I know what they represent that they have meaning. And we know what they represent because there are rules governing them and how we use them) then this has certain implications for other ways of looking at the world (the idea of an unlimited, infinite, all powerful super being does not fit within these requirements).

There's also the issues of subjectivity and objectivity. It is not currently possible (and some would argue never will be but I dislike absolutes) for a human being to be objective, to perceive things objectively. Therefore everything we perceive and the judgements we make based upon it are subjective and thus prone to error. Given that we all inevitably have mistakes and artefacts included into our world view, we cannot ever be 100% sure that anything we perceive is actually as we perceive it, or even there. This obviously has an impact on empirical studies and even theoretical studies. This is what the scientific method was invented/adopted for, to minimise the effect of subjectivity (although it can never remove it) so that instead of having to rely on anecdote and personal experience, we can point to something which shows this result repeatedly so all can experience it and make their own mind up rather than having to rely on someone elses interpretation of the event.

So basically, whilst physics can tell us a lot about a lot of stuff, even as much as it is possible for us to understand, it can't tell us everything - you may have heard of Heisenberg and his uncertainty principle (A408638) which is relevant here - and there's other theories too (Church-Tuhring or even Godel's incompleteness theorem A256439), even schroedinger's cat comes in here sort of. Thus philosophy can help inform us of what we can possibly know (and what we can't) and physics can inform philosophy with what is and what is not, plus it can provide laws and codes to use in philosophy.

The two are very closely linked. Although some people get very sniffy about philosophy since it is not a science - you can't prove philosophy, only debate it (although again that isn't 100% true). But philosophy is your worldview. It informs, defines, remodels how you see the world and how you think it all works. If that is the sort of thing you think about (i.e. how it all works) then you are already 'doing' philosophy

sorry that was a bit long winded, but it's a big subject and I've barely scratched it above. And yes the above does have some of my biases in it, but I tried to keep them to a minimum. It's by no means a concrete definitive statement but it should at least give you some idea.

If there's anything you disagree with, agree with or wish me to explain further do ask as I'm only to happy to respond. And I'll try and promise not to be so long winded next time!

Thank you for that, and don't worry about it being long-winded. When something is interesting and informative (as that was), I don't mind it being long. I'll read the Guide Entries at some point, but I'm a little busy with revision at the moment so it might be a while before I get round to reading them.

Thank you

no probs, glad you found it interesting.
Ah, revision, such fun. Hope it is going well - what subjects you doing at the moment?

Revision, fun? Weird...

Compulsory subjects - English and Maths.
Subjects that I chose - Religious Studies, History, German and all three sciences.

I enjoy them all, but all the teachers want me to do their subjects later on as well. Some get quite annoyed when I say that I've already decided what I want to do and it's not their subject.

What did you study at school when you got to choose your subjects?

Know what you mean about teacher's being a bit narked when you decide not to do their subject.

For A-Levels in the 6th form, we could choose 4 (I think) as we had to do general studies. But we were allowed to drop one of our choices if we felt we needed to.

I took Physics, Chemistry, Maths and Computer Studies. I dropped chemistry after about 3 months as the teacher and I didn't quite see eye to eye on a lot of things. But he was still put out when I dropped it. Guess they are evaluated on how their students do.

That's pretty much what I'm planning to do, but I want to do Further Maths instead of your Computer Studies - I always found my IT (computer) lessons really boring. Besides that, apparently Further Maths will be good for University. Yay - Chemisty, Physics, Maths and Further Maths - how boring am I?! We have to do General Studies too.