h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Objective:
belonging to what is external to the mind; hence, when used in literature or art, containing no trace of the writer’s or artist’s own feeling or individuality: opposed to subjective.


You no longer live in this house,
You may have at one time
But have sense left it empty
On the side of the street.
Put up for sale,
Along with your memories:

“Over there young john
Took his first steps,

This tree was his favorite
In which to play.

And this is the window
Out which I used to stare.

These memories all
Belong to me.”

Well that may be true,
That may well be true-
They are your memories
And I have no use for them.

But you no longer live in this house,
And have no place to tell me
How I should go about decorating.


I hope you like the poem, it isn’t vary good but I think it gets the point across. As for the matter of subjectivity vs. objectivity, it is an argument has been taking place amongst artist for ages, and forgive me for feeling it unlikely that anything we might have to say on the matter has not been said a thousand times already. It’s just the difference between two schools of thought. Further more once you get down in to the semantics of it you’ll find yourself in some rather deep philosophical water. It’s not that I don’t see your point of view or understand it; as you poem seems to imply, I just don’t agree with it.

Ow! You make me laugh, which is a good thing; when I'm jolly there's a chance the steely vise of my mind will open just a tiny tiny bit and admit new ideas. Okay, old ideas.
Yes you're right I have nothing new to say; not new to the world, but saying them is new to me. So take it as the prattling of a child learning to speak.
Ah, ye shouldn't have said deep philosophical waters...ooooo that's just where I like to be, the stronger and more dangerous (what could be dangerous about philosophy?), the more likely to close over my head obliterating my gurgling pleas for help, the better!
But, it would be selfish to do that here; my main interest is in writing and reading and learning from others, and, some other tendencies which needn't concern you here.

Voon, I hope I didn't imply that you didn't understand anything; it is your very sureness which I find appealing. There's plenty of straw men about, and you're not one, I see.

Now seriously, this is very interesting to me, and if you can do it without laughing, would you explain to me how you think it is possible for an artist or writer to absent herself so that there is no trace of her feeling or individuality. That is what a poem written by a computer would be like. Or a drum machine. In those cases, there is Noone There. What is the value of a depiction of life, depicted by noone? Why have art? Why not just go look around, cut out the middleman, so to speak?
This is exactly what I said I wasn't going to do.
But it just feels so good, and I am so curious. Would it help if I read more of your work? Must be.
Again I say, the heading alone was worth the price of admission.
Andmymare

I’m glad you liked the title, wasn’t sure you would get it because I don’t know where your from or if they do that sort of thing outside the states. It does seem to me a particularly American sort of thing to do which is why I wasn’t sure you would understand it as a joke and not see it as an obnoxiously long subject title.

I don’t really have time to give a proper response at the moment, so I’ll just give you something to chew on until I can. You are right to say it is impossible to write a truly objective poem, as much as it is impossible for a Christian to live their life in the footsteps of Christ. Or as much as it is impossible to write a truly subjective poem. But it is in the striving towards unattainable goals that we define who we really are.

To be continued…
Voon

pah! I live in Vermont, and this title made me laugh out loud; I could hear the insistent "Crazy Eddie" or car race voice over a cheap PA system....just right!
Time, the master of us all. I just want to say I don't want any adversarial tone to take over here. I read your poems Voon, and I like them very very much. Obviously you are an artist, a carver and honer of words; your subjects are twinged with the classics; I'm a beginner; I have no style; I'm just learning the use of words. Please let's speak again; if not on this topic, others. You are a very good poet to my reading. Thank you for putting these things on, and yes, please explore another venue before GW closes; bad timing-destiny you came on so late, good timing-destiny you came on so late!
Cheers,
Lynda

Please read this A3645632 and tell me what you think.

As I feel I am arguing the more difficult side of this debate I have taken the liberty of consulting and importing a few things from the web to help elucidate my point of view in this matter.







So taken as writ: yes it is impossible to write something truly objective in that; as philosophy teaches us, all association is relative to our ability to identify something based on previous knowledge of what it is. Therefore our ability to identify something is subjective to our former understanding of and interaction with that particular thing.

However poetry is an attempt to convey something subjective in nature to a source outside the poems creator. Therefore it is beneficial to approach this in the most objective way possible.

To stray from my attempt to remain as objective in this debate as I can, seeing as I already have an opinion on the matter, I should say I am not vary fond of romantic poetry. It’s not that I don’t feel that poetry is borne of powerful and over flowing emotion, but that it is only through objective meditation on these emotions that true art can be created. By that one can clearly see why I view sentimentality as weakness. If one is still so overcome by the power of the emotions that inspired the poem, they cannot clearly convey to the reader (who is always an objective observer) any true insight as to the nature of said emotions as said emotions are not yet fully understood by the writer. Not to mention that sentimentality allows us liberty to be less discriminating in the creative act, there by creating something more befitting of a greeting card than anything approaching art. It’s kind of like looking for someone with whom you want to have children with while drunk. Your judgment just isn’t up to par.

If you have an email address at which I can reach you I would like to send you a poem which I feel demonstrates this philosophy fairly well. I just don’t want to post it on this sit. Not really ready to let this one out into the world just yet. If you are uncomfortable posting an email address on the site you can send it to me at:

[email protected]

Voon