This is the Message Centre for el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

To El D

Post 1

retiringviolet

Just dropped in to say "hello". Hope you've got the kettle on, as I'm bringing some cream puffs and chocolate eclairs. You seem to be always on the go, and I seem to keep missing you with my absences. Nevertheless thoughts are with you. Where 'bouts in West Country are you? smiley - hugsmiley - hug


To El D

Post 2

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Hi!
You couldn't have chosen a better time. I hope you like Earl Grey!
Mmmm... cream puffs AND chocolate eclairs, you're spoiling me!
smiley - smiley
You're quite right, I do lead a rather nomadic existence although I do usually have my trusty laptop with me. I seem to have been experiencing an excess of "life" just lately, it's time I slowed down a little - for a while anyway. If I did everything I wanted to I'd never go to bed at all - ah, then I still wouldn't be doing... ok, leave it there!
smiley - smiley
I live in the delightful West Dorset, still relatively peaceful and quiet. A great place to come home to.
smiley - smiley
And you? How are you doing nowadays? We don't get to catch up do we. Pull up a chair, have some tea and a yummy cake and let's chat!
smiley - hug
Les


To El D

Post 3

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

PS I just gave myself a 'refresher course' by looking up our previous conversation! http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/F6198500?thread=6136218&post=73844603#p73844603


To El D

Post 4

retiringviolet

Blast! I accidently ate all the cakes, and it's long, long past my bed time. I'll look up our conversation too, and we'll catch up tomorrow, if that's O.K. with you? I might have to get more boring cakes though, as I'm at risk of eating them given half a chance if they're too scrumptious. I envy you having so much energy to get all the things you want done. I've got heaps I want to get done, but I just get too tired to manage it all. I tend to have about 65 projects going at any one time, and not that many get finished.
Must go, the electric blanket is beckoningsmiley - hugsmiley - hugsmiley - runxxx


To El D

Post 5

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Now did I say I had energy or got everything done? If only...
smiley - smiley
I'll tell you what, I'll get in some cakes too. That way we'll get some one way or another.
smiley - smiley
By my reckoning you should be fast asleep now so I hope you're having a good sleep and sweet dreams. It's almost my turn now so I guess your alarm will be dragging you back to conciousness before too long. Funny old world innit!
smiley - smiley
Talk with you again very soon Lu,
smiley - hug
Les


To El D

Post 6

retiringviolet

Hi Les, Here I am, hope you've still got those cakes!smiley - cakesmiley - cake. I got some more and managed to resist, well, most of them! I get the impression that you're always on the go! I didn't know that Ethel influenced Einstein, but, boy, what a woman she was!
What are you up to at the moment? I've been hoping you'll tell me more about Quakers, and their beliefs, seem like a pretty nice lot to me.
Here's a cuppasmiley - teaMany hugssmiley - hugsmiley - hugLu


To El D

Post 7

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Hi Lu!
Oh yes, I kept the smiley - cakes for us and so we can enjoy them with that nice cuppa - thanks for that!

You're right about being on the go. I'm trying to ease off a bit but it won't let me just yet! I have this fantasy of waking up one day and NOT having anything to do. I'd find something, oh yes! Music, poetry, art... One can but dream.

I will tell you a bit about Quakers. It works for me and I'd like to tell you some of why that is so. I'll just take a little while to think it through for you.
smiley - hugs
Les


To El D

Post 8

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Let me give you a bit of an outline on Quakers. There's lots of information out there if you want to dig deeper at any time but for now let's keep it simple.

Formed in the mid-17th C, one of many groups who were becoming disenchanted with the established church of the day. They saw hypocracy and corruption and were intent on exposing it. This made them very unpopular of course and they were the target of a lot of persecution.

With roots in Christianity, Quakers now look much more widely for sources of wisdom and inspiration. It is an inclusive group and there are many Quakers who would not limit themselves to a Christian outlook. It is posible to be a Quaker and a Buddhist, humanist, universalist or even a non-theist philosopher (among others).

Historically and continuing today, Quakers are involved in a lot of social issues and actions. Prison reform was always high on the agenda and Quakers can now also be found in movements for peace, sustainability, human rights, equality issues and many other current concerns. There is a Quaker office at the United Nations in Geneva.

In Britain (and some American) Quaker meetings are basically silent. If anyone has something to say, they stand in their place and say it briefly - just a few sentences - and then sit again. There is no discussion or argument; the thought is just there for everyone to take in. Another 'ministry' might follow after a suitable time of further silence and may relate to the preceding one or not. It's all a matter of inspiration of the moment. The silence is not 'empty' and in the meeting we are all aware of each other's presence so it's not quite like meditation which tends to be more inward-looking. It might be hard to imagine it but the silence is a comfortable one, not at all like the awkward and embarrassing silences that can occur elsewhere.

We meet 'in the round' rather than in rows facing the front and we have no minister or priesthood; everyone is equal. We have a clerk who is really an administrator and there may be various committees to organise aspects of the life of the meeting. They do not carry any implication of status, equality is very important to Quakers.

That's probably enough to take in for a start! If you want to know more just say or ask anything you like, I'll try to answer.

Now for a nicesmiley - spacesmiley - cappuccinosmiley - spaceand somesmiley - spacesmiley - cake!

smiley - hugs
Les


To El D

Post 9

retiringviolet

Hiya Les, Lovely cakes!

I think that Quakers sound like one of the best of religions. People treating each other as equals, and no particular leader, is to me good, basic common-sense. Nearly always, i've noticed, that leaders, though perhaps starting with good intentions, end up loosing sight of the common interest. Or else being, "got at", by the people with the "real" power. i.e. money power. I do hope our lovely Obama, will not be corrupted, if he can stay strong, I think he is a great hope for the future! Unfortunately, strength, as in kindness and nobility, is all too often seen as weakness. I thought Jimmy Carter was a rather, good, moral, ethical type, and yet they seemed to misinterpret him as being weak.

I liked your comment in the thread about women writing etc, that said about people who do no harm, but get on with the mundane work that nobody else wants to do, being undervalued, as one of the best remarks in that entire thread. So true!

Now, excuse my ignorance, but I'm not sure what "a non-theist philosopher" is, or for that matter a "universalist". I don't find the idea of people making a comment, and then having a silence, at all strange. I used to sometimes find myself doing that in interviews, I hadn't worked it out as a scheme, but I just needed a little time to gather my true thoughts together, and make them communicable. Interviewers always seemed to appreciate my thoughtfulness, and didn't take me as being slow. It was something that happened when I was in a good state of mind.

Too many people come up gung-ho with the commonly accepted answers to things, without concidering the nuances involved. I'm afraid it's something I find irritating about the human-race. Sometimes in a discussion I try to get those nuances in, but I always seem to get shouted down.

I'm a sort of atheist/ buddhist (zen), I don't believe in re-incarnation or anything, but I do have a sense of spirituality, which is very important to me.(Though it tends to stay internal.) I don't believe in God, as such, but I do believe in spirit/soul. Hope I'm not sounding too airy-fairy. I 'spose I see spirituality as the path to happiness. That sounds rather sefish, doesn't it? I'm always aiming for a clear mind, and a clear conscience, and integrity, whatever the consequences.

I hope I'd be strong enough to even risk prison in standing up for what I believe to be right. I hope I'm not sounding like some terribly self-righteous twerp. Probably am.

Isn't it funny how you can get the feel of people over the internet? Years ago, I used to wonder what it would be like if we all went around with bags over our heads. So as not to be biased by peoples' appearance. Now we have the internet, and it's a bit like that, though I suppose it's easier for people to hide their faults too! Anyway I must tell you that I do very much like the impression I get of you ,over the ether,
Lovely cuppa,
Love & hugs from Lu smiley - hugsmiley - hug

P.S. i could google universalist/non-theist, but I'd much rather you told me, as I enjoy our conversations.


To El D

Post 10

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Hi Lu,
Thanks for the message, it's good to hear from you.
I tried wearing a bag on my head but it makes using the computer rather difficult. My typing is bad enough without introducing any more obstacles. Also it attracts bewildered looks and comments from across the room.

When you come to think of it, even when we can see the other person we approach a new relationship with a certain 'strategy'. We feel our way into it, dependant on a number of factors like what sort of relationship this is likely to be - business, neighbour, acquaintance, lover, friend - we measure our reactions to what we receive from the other person and match our responses accordingly. Here on the internet I guess we do much the same but using a different set of perceptions. Not only are we deprived of the appearence of the other person but also the host of non-verbal cues that guide a face-to-face encounter. Which is a long-winded way of saying thank you for your kind words and yes, I have a good feeling about you too!

I seem to remember, somewhere back in the deep recesses of my brain, when I was studying psychology, there was an interesting book on very transient relationships, as short as that between a taxi driver and passenger for example. I'm sure there has to be a PhD thesis in the nature of internet relationships. Not for me though, and it's probably already been done!

I shall take a Quakerly pause before I answer the rest of your message! I do find it all very interesting and I look forward to plenty of fascinating conversations with you.

Back soon
smiley - hugs
Les


To El D

Post 11

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Heck! I've been very remiss and allowed myself to be totally distracted during the last couple of weeks. Tomorrow I'll do what I said I would and answer the rest of your last message.
If I bring some very special yummy cakes can you find it in your heart to forgive me?
smiley - hugs
Les


To El D

Post 12

retiringviolet

Hello Les, I've been absent from hootoo myself. Trying to do up house. I looked up about theists and non-theists, but not universalists. So does that mean you can be a Quaker and an atheist at the same time? I've seriously been thinking about it.
Yes course you're forgiven, I feel you're a very lovely person, (not so thick on the ground these days). Going through a spot of depression at the moment. All cakes donated to my cause would be most gratefully appreciated. See you soon many cuddles and good thoughts to you, Lu xxxsmiley - cakesmiley - choc


To El D

Post 13

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Sounds like a bit of mutual hugging wouldn't go amiss! I seem to be a bit adrift lately. Must try to get it together! Bear with me, I'll get there.
Let's have smiley - cake and a nice mug of smiley - cappuccino together.
And a smiley - hug of course!
Les


To El D

Post 14

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Oh and yes, the short answer is that you can be a Quaker and not believe in a god as such. Alternatively, you can be a Buddhist or a Hindu or pretty well anything you like - though I have to say that most Quakers would probably still relate to their Christian roots to some extent - many wholly so. Universalists believe that no one faith group has the whole answer and all are valid pathways. I'm probably nearer to that standpoint but I have a sneaking apreciation of non-theists and don't relate to a god-figure in the way that many faith groups do. I tend to think more in terms of an energy source, a creating and re-creating force at the centre of all that is. For me religion is just one of many ways that mankind tries to come to terms with his place in the universe. Valid in its own way but not the exclusive answer to "life, the universe and everything".

smiley - hug
Les


To El D

Post 15

retiringviolet

smiley - hugsmiley - hugsmiley - hugsmiley - hugsmiley - cakesmiley - teaMore soon.


To El D

Post 16

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Nicesmiley - spacesmiley - hugs. Yummy cake.
See you soon.
Les
smiley - hug


To El D

Post 17

retiringviolet

Just a quick hug in passingsmiley - hugsmiley - hug


To El D

Post 18

el D – for the sake of brevity and out of respect for my fellow Glums

Oooh thanks, I needed that!

smiley - hug


To El D

Post 19

retiringviolet

And another!smiley - hug


To El D

Post 20

retiringviolet

How is it, that I just KNOW, with absolute certainty that you're a very cuddly sort of person? I really am right though, aren't I.(Notice lack of question mark.)smiley - teasmiley - cake


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