h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

... and I thought I'd drop by to say 'Hi'.

Your U-space is much more informative than mine which is a tad minimalist at the moment. U148580 is a bit more informative on the subject of what makes me tick, if not on the subject of who or what I am.

I look forward to seeing you around.

B

Hi there yourself,

You seem to have a lot to do with guide/or underguide entries, I keep meaning to write a few myself.

But I am moving house in the near future to be nearer work, so I will have approx 20 hours more a week to play with my daughter and possibly fit in a few hobby things as well.

Thanks for dropping by prehaps we will meet on the threads.

Well probably more than likely.

B

Not the most straightforward thing to explain but I will Try,

Essentially the suffix Post is the aspect which needs explanation.

There are in many different areas of life points of view on: what it is, how it is, why it is, should it be, shouldn't it be, ect. I would have called them philosophies but it applies to philosophy as well so that would confuse things a bit.

These points of view give rise to movements, so for example in art, you get: the impressionist movement, the Modernist Movement and the Cubist movement.

In Philosophy the most recent 'named' movement was structuralist, which tended to look at things critically to see how things are put together, e.g. what is the structure of a working class family. The Critical aspect was one that was particularly applied to the roles of women and which aspects of society perpetuated a 'second class' role for women. This gave rise to Feminism, i.e. a way of thinking which identified the sources of opression and set out to challenge them directly seking a better social order.

Most movements of course run a course and begin to fizzle out, usually because their ideas have become hard and fast rules which don't explain things well enough for people that grew up with them. An ambiguous period tends to follow when a new framework hasn't yet been identified. These periods tent to attract the suffix post.

In the artistic example, Post impressionism, post modernism, and post cubism.

Now it starts to get complicated, structuralism gave rise to the idea that things could be structured in many different ways and there was not one clear way to say that one was better than another, this gave rise to post structuralism, which argues that your point of view is as important, (if not more so) than what you are looking at.

In the context of Feminism, it seems clear that many 'liberated women' hyave taken on roles which are similar to the roles men used to have, men however have struggled to identify a role which clearly defines them as men. This is further complicated by society's increasing willingnes to accept differences in sexual preference and gender identity.

Post Feminism is then the point of view which is looking for how individual identity can be developed for men, women, homosexuals, transexuals, intersexuals ect... in ways which doesn't oppress individuals or groups, but allows individuals to define themselves broadly, rather than in the narrow ways which were traditional prior to the widespread acknowledgement of Feminist ideas.

So we now need a way of helping Men to feel like men, without oppressing women, for women to feel like women without emasculating men and for everyone esle to be accepted as well.

One last difficulty, a good many of helpful ideas were put forward by true feminists, who thought that things like young women going out and getting drunk together just like young men was a bad thing and the marginalisation of the role of 'mother' was not helpful either. but their ideas somehow got lost in the tide of history.

In practice then a lot of post-feminist ideas in fact started out as Feminist, now they are trying to find a new voice allongside for example, women who want to be mothers and men who want to be fathers as well as being parents, rather than Just parents.

As you can see it is a big topic and as soon as we properly discover what post Feminism is it will probably be called that rathe than post feminism.

Feels like a long answer too sorry about that, if some of it seems too familiar I don't have a clear idea of what you know or dont know so I thought I should be as complete as possible.

Thanks for this. I did see it, and did intend to reply, and then all hell broke loose in another thread.

It means what I vaguely assumed it to mean then.

>> Post Feminism is then the point of view which is looking for how individual identity can be developed for men, women, homosexuals, transexuals, intersexuals ect... in ways which doesn't oppress individuals or groups, but allows individuals to define themselves broadly, rather than in the narrow ways which were traditional prior to the widespread acknowledgement of Feminist ideas.

One thing that I have been thinking about a lot recently is the difference between sexuality and culture. Gay culture is incredibly strong, and clearly very empowering, but I am curious to see to what extent, for example, the stereotypes are becoming constrictive rather than liberating. In "Angels over America" Robert de Nero says (I paraphrase) "I am not homosexual, I am a man who f**ks men".

It is also clear that there are fashions in ways of experiencing homosexuality. There is, sfaik, no indication that the Ladies of Llagollen were butch and fem, just that they were two eccentric and reclusive women who were, presumably, lovers. Then Radclyffe Hall produced the stereotype for the 1930s, and now we have diesel dykes.

>> In practice then a lot of post-feminist ideas in fact started out as Feminist,

I had a book once called The Sceptical Feminist, which was the last kick of a gentle feminism before the madness of PC. I regret losing it. On the other hand, the damn thing is available second hand from one of Amazon's resellers for 50p. That site will be my downfall...

Cheers, and sorry about the silent treatment.

B

Likewise on the silent treatment front, I have been away from work (A school Summer holidays etc) and as this is my only internet conection at present haven't been on line.

Your paraphrasing seemed more useful than my, as ever, rather convoluted commentary.

Your last comments link to a conunndrum I have been wrestling with for a little while.

Some Stereotypes are useful, e.g. Bar worker, Postal Worker, Police Officer, there are even useful ways of framing members of certain social groups. How then do we keep the useful ones whilst ditching the unhelpful ones.

The De Nero comment is a very useful one, But it gives rise to some interesting connundrums.

At one time I would have described myself as a Gay man, but like a lot of gay men a lot of freinds of mine were women. I am not and never have been a Mysoginist. Now I am married with a small child to a woman who used to describe herself as a Lesbian. What are we 'Cured Gays' (I think not) or a gay man and a Lesbian who sleep together, (possibly) Parents, (Certainly).

This is for me the most interesting aspect of the 'post feminist' framework, once all those old rules go out the window what linguistic framework can we use to give useful descriptions of how things are.

>> What are we?

Um. People?

Which proves your point really. We need lables, but we use them at our peril.

B