h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Do you actually believe that debate amongst people such as the people on this website has more than infinitesimal effect on things outside? As a full blown conspiracy theorist with dimensional extensions, I am aware of some a few of the people that "pull the strings" behind the scenes. They are not moved by anything that would happen here.

On the other hand it is fun to debate, especially when I know that it will have no effect. It frees me up to say what I really mean instead of being cautious. Somehow if I knew that what I had to say was really being taken seriously, I would find it much harder to come up with things I would want to be instituted in real life.

I think that those parties that really run things have their own agendas and they are bored with people such as myself offering advice.
So which debates are you up for? Iraq, non-proliferation, or the local football scores?

dim12trav

"On the other hand it is fun to debate ..."

That's the point! It is good, healthy fun! And just because the b*****ds aren't listening doesn't mean we should stop talking. Just because they don't give us the answers doesn't mean we should stop asking the questions.

And just because it has no apparent impact doesn't mean we should deny ourselves the pleasure of offering them a torrent of well-crafted abuse.

Me? I'm up for debate on just about anything you can think of. Try me!

EH
[email protected]
http://electrichermit.proboards22.com/index.cgi

Is reality a mutually based concept or is there really an outthere really outthere?

I favor objective reality, but I recognize that culture so defines the way I think that I doubt sometimes that there is anything that is not affected by it. Certainly every idea that I can think has traveled through my mind, and I know that it is soaking in a brew of created concepts from other minds. So without those other minds can I actually have an experience of something that is not known already ?

If there actually is unmediated experience, then how will I define that experience except in terms that I kow from other things?

Huh?

dim12trav

"... is there really an outthere really outthere?"

There is! And there is a risk that some of it might seep in!

EH
[email protected]
http://electrichermit.proboards22.com/index.cgi

Dim12trav,
Does culture effect the way that we think or does what we think effect culture?
Should the core values of all societies be the same? I say core values because cultural differences can be something to be savoured. Geographic considerations must, of necessity, influence behaviour but with a common core value can the appreciation and celebration of specific cultural behaviour be our gateway to a higher understanding.
Are cultures tiered? Is there an hierarchy? Is one particular spiritual belief at odds with another one or complimentary. Is there "interference" or synergy.
In the past, it was "religion" which sought to control our mindset but unfortunately its sphere of influence was only parochial in nature and that has caused myriad subtle differences in interpretation, which has in turn weakened the message. And it is unseemly to see the infighting to claim the moral high ground. It is also arrogant.
A contemporary view now sees nearly all major religions coming to terms with a global spirituality, something which is causing theologians anxieties as they realise the negative effects that their churches' "exclusive" views have had and are having. Fortunately these anxieties are not shared with the free spirits who recognise a synergy.
The recent Roman Catholic pronouncement re homosexual marriage, is seen by many as further entrenchment..... even a Loss of Faith and New Islam is an encouraging development. It may not be original thought but it is worth experiencing. And an unmediated experience will require a control secure enough to allow it to become available, even if it is not mainstream. This new experience then becomes that which is not original. It is merely added to the database.
As we do this, are we dipping into our gene pool? Claiming back experiences we have enjoyed in the past, right back eventually to the point of Creation. The ultimate unmediated experience, Life

Even more fundamental than religion is the influence of culture. We can only see that which we are prepared to see, or have the mental preparation to understand. Frequently there is a total disconnect between one conceptual framework and another. People unable to physically see something that is beyond the conception laid down into their minds from "cultural memory".

Religion presupposes so many cultural assumptions that its complex nature is far above what I am talking about. (eg what is a man?) Well in history there have been times when if the animal standing before us had darker skin it wasn't a man. (regardless of whether it walked and talked like a man) The framework that allowed that idea was so built up by culture that it was impossible for some people to see that poor slave as a man.

The concepts we use everyday such as chair, house, car, are so culturally inculcated within us that the truly revolutionary ideas are simply rejected out of hand. Our minds are so immersed in these concepts that nothing we see, or do is free from them, in a sense there ceases to be an outthere and it becomes in-there instead. Can we even prove there is an outthere without depending upon these concepts?

Dim12trav,

I would suggest to you that religion DENIES so many cultural assumptions that its complex nature [what is a man] is far above what you are writing about.

Is culture merely a concept, a reasoned thesis. Exploring the hypothetical will get you outthere but it will always only be understood by those who like to travel in time. Backward, forwards and sideways.

Infinity?.....it never ends.

There are so many infinities which ones. According to set theory there are the numberable infinities, and the un numberable infinities.
If your interested I can go further in my explanation, but be happy with this little bit because I can ramble on for hours about this subject.

When dealing with time travel such as I do, such alternative realities can be so close to each other that they are for all intents and purposes identical. That is why keeping your keys in one place is so important (I refer to my personal page) how else can one be sure they are in the right one? The embarrasment of suddenly discovering that you are not in the "right" reality can be devastating.

AS far as our debate is concerned "cogito ergo sum" first written by Rene Descarte during the (so called) enlightenment is only half the picture. The rational, mental and outer part of humanity entered a ascending phase of power during this time. It was a rejection of the contemplative Judeo-christian hierarchy that had so corrupted itself by that time. So the "baby was thrown out with the bathwater" and a complete reversal of society came about. They rejected the idea that things are knowable without the rational, thinking part of our brains, a direct knowing so complete that it is dificult to even talk/write about.

What this ended up doing is eliminating the foundations for faith in god, and substituted man's rational abilities instead, making us prey to the hazards of "will" worship. A perversion that allowed us to think that we are God and therefore whatever we like is good. Which has never been true but people continue to believe.

Ultimate reality is God, not "us", so it is our duty to search for and discover just what God is.

Always look for the flaw, Dim12trav.
It is better to think that you are a God, and while you do God-like things, the thought/illusion? remains. In the beginning, God made heaven and Earth.... Do you know of a bigger playground that that, Dim12trav?

It is big enough for me! And I don't play in it, I live in it.

However, as you rightly suggest, it is only a staging post for intergalactic time/space travel. Venus, at any time of the year, is a favourite destination of mine.

"The embarrasment of suddenly discovering that you are not in the "right" reality can be devastating." and counterproductive. Does it call for some fine tuning from others. Do they lack Faith? That is normally the missing ingredient.

My primary hangout is outside this dimension (where corporeal travel is a handicap) but everyone is free to experience complete and total freedom. Thought travel is the way to go no mechs to get in the way and no time spent getting there, and the time barrier is non-existant also.

I only hang around this place out of sentimentality, a certain amount of maintenance and for what little conversation I can get under the imitation of this dimension. It's funky.

A compassionate and enlightening response, Dim12trav. For now, MY primary hangout is within this dimension. It has its attractions and there is a lot that I can do.I can REALLY enjoy that ultimate human sexual pleasure, the orgasm, even my own. But it can pale into relative insignificance when I choose to compare it to the pleasure I can feel from the orgasm of my partner. A simple pleasure, I know. It may even be an addiction. HOWEVER.....

"Thought travel is the way to go no mechs to get in the way and no time spent getting there, and the time barrier is non-existant also."
I have felt and experienced this progression on a number of occasions. It is something which I welcome and I will become an ambassador, guiding by example in my every thought, word and deed. The blunt, yet effective Earthly restraint/constraint which is known as Capitalism condemns and confines our souls. Its power is pervasive. To DESTROY it, we feed it, itself. It deserves THAT.

THAT sort of freedom IS total and complete. But it is Earthbound, and although sweet to savour, it will only last for as long as it takes for me to know that Keys to this "secret" are safe in the hands of "someone" who KNOWS. Only then will I be prepared fly away further...... to assume your mantle, as Lord Protector of the Keys.

Now.. where did we go wrong? Did Adam and Eve enjoy it TOO much? Can you blame them? Did someone forget to put in CONTROL?

Controls which emote to ur2die4 and godisagoddess, amongst others.

Although my physical form is Earthbound and my works and responsibilities are within this sphere, my mind can take me to infinities and I do not stop it. To search for the Truth guarantees an Immortality.

Good to talk with you, Dim12trav and faka fetai.

It is funny that you should bring it up. The records we have includes no mention of the amount of time they spent in the "garden", but when God exerted his authority and forbade them access to a particular tree (regardless of His reasons) they did not trust Him and chose to partake of it anyway.

Adam and Eve walked with God everyday, they had access as much as they could take but chose instead to "be like" God. Well God is all powerful and we mortal humans when faced with ultimate power fail miserably.

Legends have it that it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and that knowledge has never been able to put us into the same dimension as God. No matter how much you know or how good you are those gates are closed.

The only access now is through the death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ. That is a gift, not something earned. Yes I do believe it!

An interesting word ..... resurrection. Maybe we take it TOO literally. It would be a VERY POWERFUL word if we could instil/install the notion ....... of a being, being resurrected in the form of another.

Quite why we allow resurrection of Evil as opposed to resurrection of Good is something for everyone to ponder? It must be that old "Too good to be true" cliche which has them fighting their demons rather than recognising them and keeping them in check. Simple, clear, meditative reflection on current issues reveal a disharmony and corruption in the Force of Good.

Evil is an intolerant master. It is arrogant, unprincipled and selfish. It uses the fear of Chaos and darkness to manipulate us. And just as we have Day and Night, so we will have Good and Evil. But we can bring Light into the Night.......can you SHOW me someone who can bring dark into the Day?

You CANNOT!

"...and we mortal humans when faced with ultimate power fail miserably." because we choose to fight Evil with Evil. We exacerbate the problem, compound the Evil.

"Legends have it that it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and that knowledge has never been able to put us into the same dimension as God. No matter how much you know or how good you are those gates are closed." But we opened the gates for Evil, Dim12trav, which means that we can close them again and if these gates have locks/were locked, it must mean that, as they are open, we have keys. So we can LOCK them ..... again. It also means that we can unlock and open the gates for Good.

It is only a legend and we can choose to believe in another.....if we tell ourselves.

"...they did not trust Him and chose to partake of it anyway." Is THIS, as the flaw in the Utopian ideal. Which states that there is ALWAYS a flaw. The secret is to recognise and accept this and the search to find/guard against the flaw will result in an approximation of Utopia. Must we take away the element of choice because they are too weak to enjoy/control it.

Does God wish to re-exert his authority, in the light of what he now knows of "humans".

And the records make no mention of the time spent in the "garden" because they never leave it. Where else would they go? What for? They live in the Garden of Eden and it is a Paradise. They just made a wrong choice and now we all suffer because of it. It is the Way of Life.

However, .....we can make a right choice and change things, FOREVER!

It is a Gift....do you believe it?

I DO ...from the depths of my soul and with every fibre of my being. What does that tell you about me, Dim 12trav?

Making choices is an illusion. No matter right or wrong humans miss the point. It's not about freedom, but which master as we going to be slaves for. We all make wrong choices at one time or another, again it is not about the choices of right or wrong.

"Must we take away the element of choice because they are too weak to enjoy/control it."

You write about the enjoyment or the control of it, but there is no control ever, denial is not the most powerful thing there is. The most wretchedly poor or the most elequently rich have the only choice they can make to trust God or not. I say those who think they have control/all the answers and through their own effforts try to climb out of the the misery are doomed to the fartherest pit of hell.

Our strength is in our weakness, our total dependence on God for everything. God then will give us His righteousness and we will make it into the kingdom. everyhting else is as though it were a dirty rag to be tossed in the fire.

But it is surely NOT a matter of Time. The ultimate choice, the last choice that we make in this plane can benefit from the illusions we make. Choices is making an illusion.

If this is considered....?....
"Must we take away the element of choice because they are too weak to enjoy/control it." ..... is a compassionate response.

You are passionate in your distaste for those who corrupt Love by taking for themselves that which is not theirs. They are indeed, in Denial. And the simple, only choice they can make to trust God, is denied them. And it impoverishes us all, from the most wretched poor to the most eloquently rich.

This beautiful weakness IS our Strength. The Total Dependence on God for Everything.

And I have just agreed with you, Dim12trav ???

second great debate:

any suggestions?

How about: is the second world war over or are those thousands of lost souls that continuously rehash it keeping it going far beyond reality?

How about: Hedonism, an heavenly Aphrodisiac or a devilish Potion?... a journey in Black and White, with shades of Grey.

She may rise to the Bait! To fear too much of what you like, prolongs the pleasure.

The flesh is a very attractive bait. The enjoyment of such requires the leaving the rational mind and entering into a space where the passions live, ultimately the climax is the goal.

Promises though of tranformation through this method are exagerated. Tantric yoga aside there have been some "prophets" that have extolled abandoning the rational and being transformed through the worship of the climax. The primary difficulty I have with that is the introduction of disease organisms. Secondarily is the production of off spring otherwise called children. I still disapprove of the surgical removal of these offspring, hardly fair to them.

All in all though, I support the abandoning of the rational, there is far too much of that going around the world today. One cannot truly understand the divine without that out of the way. But the benefits of this abandoning cannot be had in the bedroom, with all of that organic flucuations going on.

Ever tried sensory deprivation??? Even drugs if handled properly and guided by some experienced person will deliver aid "transformation." But I'm not sure if that can be included in "hedonism" or not.

For the most part the sexual part of hedonism is a plush and fun "dead end" but it leads nowhere but a nice diversion.

"For the most part the sexual part of hedonism is a plush and fun "dead end" but it leads nowhere but a nice diversion."

Dim, Hedonism IS the sexual part, a plush and fun "dead end" but a nice diversion. But you see it leading nowhere, whereas I see it leading to everywhere.

Your three primary difficulties, which prevent total abandonment, ARE indeed the difficulties. But transformation through this method cannot be exaggerated.

As yet I have not "progressed" to sensory deprivation, finding continuing comfort in hedonism. The flesh is a very attractive bait.

But greater spiritual pleasures await. They wait only on me!