h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

...for the moral support.

I think that in my country, there's a lot of denial in the 'debates' on such as veils and immigration. The centre-ground has shifted rightwards, leaving me on the far left. I would be happy to discuss the veil with any Muslim (have done!)...and, of course, it's a hot topic amongst Muslims themselves, worldwide. However, I'm not confident that most of my fellow citizens are coming to the subject without racist assumptions. And I know that I'm not winning any friends by saying so.

And I tell you what...were I a Muslim woman who had chosen to start wearing niqab in the current environment and some white guy were to ask me why...My answer would not exceed two words.


(btw....Billy Connolly is famous for a version of the Gumboot Song. I presume it's a transliteration of the Kiwi original, not vice versa).

Bob that is getting to be a weird thread though. People have such narrow definitions of racism (ignorance? convenience?).

>> However, I'm not confident that most of my fellow citizens are coming to the subject without racist assumptions.<<

Yep.


Good for you with this:

F135418?thread=3577992&show=20&skip=1000#p42972404

Although I don't know how you do it I coined a term recently - The Bonobo Threshold - which is what one reaches when you realise you may as well call someone a moron as say anything intelligent You do seem to walk that line very well.

I had to walk away tonight

I didn't know about the Billy Connolly version until recently, but read something about it being his song. He and Clarke would be contemporaries I think . It wouldn't surprise me if it is a Connolly song - the word 'pleurisy' isn't exaclty kiwi bloke vernacular. I guess I should find out.

The Bonobo Threshold I love it...and I'm touched: nobody's ever named a phenomenon after me before.

Yes, you sometimes get to a point that you realise it's not a matter of unpicking a couple of misapprehensions; the whole foundations are shoddy. A line I like to use for shock effect:
"British political history has repeatedly shown us - from Cable St to Southall to Blackburn, that the only argument that fascists are capable of understanding is half bricks, thrown with great force."

It annoys wooly liberals, but there's a certain truth in it. Sadly, it's been forgotten. There used to be a general consensus of No Platform For Racists. This was broken when, a couple of years ago, Nick Griffin of the BNP was interviewed on BBC Radio. So now, in the public mind, tey're 'just another political party.'

You seen this? F19585?thread=3667367

>>>
Why is ... ... telling people that the Qu'ran says that any Muslim can use their right arm... to take any woman they want? Was he just including this as part of his general and wide ranging talk about the teachings of Islam? Did he sensibly balance it out with some valid points about how Islam preaches a lot of good things as well?
<<<

F19585?thread=3667367#p42995012

Sounds familiar

*

So, do you really think the veil/cross thread has anywhere to go?


*

btw, the general consensus online seems to be that the song is Connolly's first, but that he in turn adapted it from a traditional Scottish song about weaving:

http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiWORKWEAV;ttWORKWEAV.html

Yes...and the Weaver's song is a well-known folkie standard. I think its origins are in the Chartist movement. The weavers of Paisley (right next door to Connolly's and my Glasgow) were some ofv the early radical martyrs.


Re the Veil thread...Yeah...I think it's probably time to move on. I would slightly like the (probobly) well-meaning Trig, novo and JCN to realise the methods that the fascists use to con...but I think I've given it a decent shot.

Maybe a better forum is one in which the BNP are explicitly indicted.

(And do you share my suspicions on a certain party's party allegiences?)

Do you mean him and the BNP?

If you read my words carefully, you'll see that I have made no such specific accusation.

Mind you...they are a respectable, mainstream party, entitled to speak out on the problem of Islam.

I had a look at Dick Gaughan's website. He looks interesting. Just had a look on a NZ music website, all his CDs are fairly pricey (probably brought in as special imports). Can you recommend one to start with?

Is his music style traditional? I'm used to radical, politicised folk in the form of Ani Difranco but her music style ain't exactly traditional folkie.

And... that flickr photo, the one under the white lily, I think it's a clematis not a rose.

Nice photos. The vege garden is pretty impressive too - bet there's no pesticides been used there. Does it belong to someone you know?

Dick Gaughan would normally be classed as 'Scots Traditional Music'. But traditional music is 'A Living Tradition' and there's a really big scene here. The album to go for is 'A Handful Of Earth', which is widely reckoned to be the best ScotsTrad album ever. I think you can hear samples on Amazon. My favourite track of his is on a different album: 'The 52nd Highland Division's Farewell to Sicily' by the great folklorist, Hamish Henderson.

(Henderson was one of the platform speakers when Mandela visited Glasgow before his election - Glasgow was the first city in the world to name a street after him, the one which housed the SA consulate. Henderson sang an acapella song about the Rivonia trial which he'd written in 1961: "This may not be the best song ever written about Nelson Mandela, but I can assure you it was the first." A great day! Thousands of us stood in the pouring rain to see a great man.)

By the way...you may have noticed my change in tactics. Anti-racists are 'Ordinary, decent people.' Plus I've been using an example of hard-bitten Glasgow folk that I think will wind up a certain person's sensibilities .

I'll check it out.


I see our other resident has turned up in the VC thread Just caught up on the backlog. It's strange that you haven't had an email from the mods. Usually if the post has been removed permanently you get one pretty much straight away. If the post has been referred to the Eds* for a decision, then there is a delay but you can tell from the wording of the mod message in the post if that is what is happening.

*Or maybe it goes to the community team first, that may have changed (it used to be the Eds that were consulted).

I don't recall having come across SS before. Glad to see he's a known .

I'm pretty sure he was in the VC thread early on.

Can you repost some of the removed thread that was between Jimster's ones? Just so I can get the gist of what they're getting a legal opinion on.

And I'm still interested in if you are getting mod emails yet. If you're not I'm wondering if they've changed the policy. Are you sure your email with the bbc is the same one you use now?

Here's the email addresses in case you want them:

[email protected]

[email protected]

The second one is probably the one to use about moderation.

See also F77636?thread=3108897

See my explanation on the V&C. I asked for legal clarification as to whether a known nazi can be accused of racism. (and if not - is this really a site I want to be a part of).

Jimster seems to be saying that moderation decisions don't have to be sent for offensive posts.

I'm really dicked off by the way the guy is patronisimg me with his 'play nice' remarks. I'm saying someone is racist, not that they've got smelly pants.

Crikey, this has all gotten very weird.

I think Jimster is like that with everyone, if that's any help



I think it's another example of the Eds not being explicit enough. I saw their posts, and then yours where you asked for clarification, but it didn't occur to me that you would be modded for that or threatened with premod. I think that it would have been more helpful if they had said that in the meantime can you please avoid naming people as racists until we get clarification as to if it's defamatory or not, and we will come back to you when we know.

So often we don't get told what is going on It's clearer now that you got modded for calling someone a racist, but I had no idea at the time that that was a legally defamatory issue in the UK. An *explanation* to the thread would have served better IMO than a few comments here and there by an Ed that ended up out of context because your posts were hidden.

Arrrg.

It's always the same with these kinds of h2g2 controversies.

Och, it's only a silly website. But some of the post-modding bleating by SWL and novo does slightly rankle. See for example the 'ASBO' thread in my personal space. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/F1860405?thread=3737920 Yet another case of "The bigger the lie..."

Actually I'm finding the bleating in the new VC thread the sickmaking one It reminds me of people who have no power using the first opportunity to poke a stick once the person they don't like is silenced.

I'm still trying to decide whether to get involved in that thread or not.

Nah - just walk away, Renée. There's nobody there whose opinions I value. Anyone with any sense will soon come to realise were SWL's heart lies.

Well FB is there, being reliable as ever.

Good on Gnomon too for posting in your journal thread. It's one of the delights of the place when he turns up in a thread and says to someone that he's not going to speak to them or read their posts again because they are so unacceptable I saw him do this to a certain researcher in Ask some time ago, and of course the researcher had no idea who Gnomon was or what he was on about. Brilliant.