h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hello Geggs

You may have noticed that in The Post every month I have a thing about the Flea Market called 'Super Market', in which I interview people who have done Flea Market rescues? Well - I was wondering if I could interview you for the next one?

I see that to date you have Two Edited rescues:

Warren Ellis - Author of Comic Books
Original: Warren Ellis, writer of comicbooks and other such items by Flatscan

Google Games
Original: Googlewhack by DMK

One co-written rescue that has been recommended:
Discworld Noir

One on the 'To Do List' - The Schlieffen Plan

Would you like to tell about each article that you have been involved in rescueing?

Would you only rescue articles about subjects you know well?

Have you approached a Flea Market Rescue any differently to how you write an article from scratch? Is it easier or more difficult?

When you write a Flea Market rescue, how do you decide what to keep and what to edit, and how much of a right do you feel that you have in making decisions about the article?

Would you recommend doing Flea Market rescues to other researchers?

How do you think you would feel about being on the other side, about someone else making changes to an entry you had written, if someone tried to rescue entry?

Is there one that stands out as the most fun to write?

On the other hand, was there one that proved to be the most difficult to complete, if so, why?

How much revision do you think proper in a FM Rescue?

Are there any questions you think I should have asked, or anything else you'd like to say?

I hope you're happy for me to interview you - if you have anything else you wish to add, anything you don't want to answer etc, then yes, please feel free to say!

<BB<

Hi BB.

I will answer your questions, but it may take a few weeks, RL permitting.


Geggs

I look forward to hearing back from you when you've got time.

<BB<

Actually, before I answer, could I ask for a number of related incidents to be taken into consideration?

Like A3094391 "Death's Head - A British Comics' Character", which as based quite largely on A1057745 - an entry that I just happened to find while searching the Guide. The original entry had never been submitted to PR, and so is not technically a FM rescue, but it is a rescue from obscurity.

And A2890866 "Firefly - The TV series", which was based on A2646876, again not an FM rescue, but another find while searching through the Guide. The two entries don't actually share much in common apart from the subject, but the one did at least provide the inspiration for the other.

Finally, there was A83867719 "Arthur Dent and 'The Plain Man's Pathway to Heaven'" which was inspired by A77737044. Now that was submitted to PR, and I suggested that adding some detail about Arthur Dent might make the entry more interesting. When the author ed both Tufty and Lanza suggested I write the entry with the detail that I had suggested. So I did some research and wrote it, and the original PR thread was knocked back to entry. So it was a sort of pre-emptive FM rescue.

Now I know that none of these three really count as FM rescues, but I do think of them in as similar entities.


Geggs

I think that that is the sort of thing that we should definitely mention in the SuperMarket interview. I could either list what you've said there, or if there's anything more you'd like to say about them, let me know and I'll include that too.

<BB<

Well, if I can include them, then they may feature in some of the answers I give.

What I've said already could be the first exchange of the interview, if you like. Kinda like getting my retaliation in first.

I will answer the questions next week, I promise. I'll have a bit more free time then.


Geggs

Did you have a chance to think about the answers?

<BB<

Got a bit of spare time, so I'm finally writing up my answers!

Would you like to tell about each article that you have been involved in rescueing?

Well, I've already mentioned the non-FM rescues, so I'll run through the FM-sourced ones.

The original entry on Warren Ellis contained little more than a list of his works an a few biographical details. I was rather into Warren's work at the time, and had been for some years. I knew about some of his earlier works that weren't mentioned in the entry. So, I set about fleshing out the list, and providing more details about his various comics. Admittedly, it's about 10 years out of date now, but it was right at the time.

In the original PR thread for the Googlewhack entry Bright Blue Shorts suggested that the entry should be expanded to include other games that can be played with Google. So when it dropped into FM I picked up that idea, and created the Google Games entry. Though I still made use of DMK's googlewhack for that section of the entry.

Discworld Noir, now, this was your idea wasn't it BB? We'd both played the game, and felt we could both help bring the entry up to the standard to get through PR, so you suggested a collabrative FM rescue. Had that ever happened before by the way, or are we pioneers? So, you worked on bits, I worked on bits, we both re-wrote each others bits, re-ordered the entry a bit, and then released it to PR. Where, thankfully, it didn't get torn to bits.

Would you only rescue articles about subjects you know well?

I'd say no. Okay, most of those I've rescued so far are on subjects I already knew a lot about, but I was merely aware of the existence of 'The Plain Man's Pathway to Heaven', so I had to do some research to be able to provide some analysis of the contents. Also, all I know about the Schlieffen Plan is what is in the entry at the moment, so I'll have to find out whether it's actually right before I start doing any work on it!

Have you approached a Flea Market Rescue any differently to how you write an article from scratch? Is it easier or more difficult?

It depends on what is in the entry already, I guess. The Googlewhack, Warren Ellis and Firefly entries were little more than stubs, so I approached them as I would any other entry, and they were just as much work. The Death's Head entry, however, was fairly substantial to begin with, and only really needed a bit of editing to get it ready for PR. So that one was most definitely easier.

Would you recommend doing Flea Market rescues to other researchers?

Delfinetely. I kinda look at entries in the Flea Market as those which failed at the final hurdle. The original author wrote an entry, submitted it to PR, but for whatever reason wasn't able to see the entry through the PR process. Then the great and good of Peer Review decided, in their collective wisdom, that the entry is not quite good enough for the Guide, but only just, because if it was completely unsalvageable it would be sent back to entry. So, the contents of FM are the entries that nearly made it, and just need a little push to get them over the top.

Is there one that stands out as the most fun to write?

Google Games. I just had a laugh writing that one. I threw a load of jokes in there to. If you're writing about something that is supposed to be fun, you might as well have fun writing it.

On the other hand, was there one that proved to be the most difficult to complete, if so, why?

Discworld Noir. Working with BB was terrible.

No, it wasn't. Honestly, it was fine. It was a bit odd though, because you had the editing rights on the entry, so could tell you what I wanted in the entry, but couldn't do it myself. I was more concerned about treading on your toes than altering the text of the original author. That made things slightly awkward, I guess, but not really difficult.

In all honesty the most difficult was probably the first one - Warren Ellis but I think that's just because I found it a difficult entry to write anyway. It all came out rather dry. But I wrote Google Games in the very next month, so I can't have been horribly traumatised by the process.

When you write a Flea Market rescue, how do you decide what to keep and what to edit, and how much of a right do you feel that you have in making decisions about the article?

Do you know what? I've never really thought about this before. I guess that must mean that I've never feel any restriction in changing the entries I've worked on. The original version of all the entries still exist in the larger guide, and always will, so none of the original authors' words are really lost. I suppose it's a qualitive issue - if the original author's work is good, then I'll want to keep it. If I think I can do better, I'll just extract the facts and re-write it.

How do you think you would feel about being on the other side, about someone else making changes to an entry you had written, if someone tried to rescue entry?


As I say, my work will still exist onsite, so if someone else wanted to pick up an entry I'd abandoned and use it to create another, then I've got no problem with that at all. Not I'm planning to abandon an entry in PR, mind you. So I've got no intention of the oppotunity arising, but if did, then it's fair game, I reckon.

How much revision do you think proper in a FM Rescue?

I think I've already touched on this, but it really does depend on how good the original entry is. If it needs a complete re-write, then I'll completely re-write it. If it just needs a little editing to make it ready, I'll try to do as little as possible.

Are there any questions you think I should have asked, or anything else you'd like to say?

Here's a question "When did you last look through FM, and are you considering another rescue?"

And the answer: we've already mentioned 'The Schlieffen Plan' as being in my plans, and as for the last time I looked through FM - that was a couple of months ago, I think. But I'm having a look now that I'm thinking about it.

The entry on 'The Sims' - A2499113 - looks savable, as does 'Fireball XL5' - A3554471. Oh, I've just found 'The use of perspective and ‘deep focus’ in Citizen Kane' - A51938706 - I'd need to have a good read through that to see what needs to be done there, but it's quite substantial already.

Though, if anyone else wants to grab them first, that's fine by me. It is a great and noble job to rescue entries from FM, to give life to that which lies dormant, to give them wings and let them fly. So go on, all you lot reading this, run to FM and see what you can save.

--------------
And that's all the questions answered, though not necessarily in the right order. I hope you can piece them back together into an structured interview.


Geggs

That's great - thanks Geggs!

<BB<

Oh, one last thing - if my non-FM rescues are being taken into consideration, does that mean I get a Scavenger award? Or at least an honourary one?


Geggs

As long as you get to 5 articles in which you share credit with the original author, you are entitled to the Scavenger Badge (as articles in which you have sole credit count towards your number of solo entries badge). At the moment the three articles you have mentioned, A3094391 Death's Head - A British Comics' Character, A2890866 Firefly - The TV series, and A83867719 Arthur Dent, are all credited solely to you. If you'd like them to count as Flea Market Rescues and towards the Scavenger Badge, I think we'd have to credit the original authors, and that would take you down from 26 solo entries to 23. With 2½ Flea Market Rescues and one on the way, would you prefer for those entries to count towards your Number of Solo Articles badge or Scavenger badge?

I'm happy for you to have an honorary badge in the meantime, though, but alas I don't think we actually do 'em.

<BB<

No, I've just checked and A3094391 is also credited to Kelvin Green - U228543, and A2890866 is also credited to Brodnick - U733578, so neither of those count as solo entries, surely? But, yeah, A83867719 is listed as solely mine.

Those first could two count towards a Scavenger badge without taking away from the Solo Articles badge, couldn't they?


Geggs