h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi there Jodan,

Not chatted with your good self in a while. I probably won't stay up much longer, but just thought I'd leave you a message. I can smell something in the wind... change on h2g2. Sounds like some interesting things are a foot. But then again I could be wrong.

Smells/wind/feet, in another context this could be a very smelly conversation

Terran

As good old Bob Dylan wrote, times, they are a-changing.
Well, I'm not so sure. The ball has stopped a-rolling on the PROD (Peer Review, Only Different - I don't know if you've kept up with the Post conversations... they're long ) movement that Waz, Pin and I were pushing. But I do hope that h2g2 changes and soon. At this point, I seriously doubt I'll be able to contribute to h2g2 (except for the UnderGuide, that's a commitment I hope to keep) in the future... it's just not worth it anymore.

It's barely worth pushing for change. Others stand in our way simply to stand in the way. They don't want to see change, so they make up things we never said and twist our words.
'He who gets hurt will be he who has stalled... for the times, they are a-changing'

I'm thinking soon I'll have to pass the torch to the next generation of hootooers. It's a fine bunch, for the most part

Until I went to have a look at it before, I was non the wiser. I'm afraid I lost much of my motivation after my various run ins with spook - I don't know whether I'd consider him someone who stands in the way for sake of it, or if he's just a pain in the backside. My happiest times on h2g2 have been while writing for the AWW and the post, when I've been in a enthusiastic and creative group (as the Terranic Army was in its beginning - I do go on too much about that don't I? ) and whilst we were starting up the UnderGuide. Sadly I've become something of a poor player in the fight for a more enjoyable h2g2.

I'm still here, but more as a ghostly apparition. I think I've become something I never ever expected to be - a Lurker . I don't know what you personally think of the UnderGuide - it is a fantastic and potentially exciting idea... I've struggled to kind of find my feet there. There was a lot of messing around in the early days, and maybe I burnt too fast too soon. And that was just from my position as a founding miner... god knows what it was like for you being the one leading the charge.

But I don't want to make this about me. H2g2, the UnderGuide, The CAC (in its many forms), The Post, and the many creative groups out there are marvellous examples of what a great community can produce. To a certain extent that includes the Edited Guide... but it is far too central to h2g2 in its current format for my liking. From my vantage point (and my experience is incomparable to yours) it appears to take itself far too seriously. I suspect from your PROD campaign you agree with me.

Now I would imagine a lot of these people, as you say, are quite happy with their positions (and forgive me if I'm covering ground you've probably trod before) and so are unlikely to take kindly to an opposing view. I suppose they take the view, that if it ain't broke don't fix it. But what if you don't realise its broke?

It'd be interesting to see what the inside of the Scout's group is like. I get the impression there is a bit of a clique there of like minded people... where the only way to change them would be either to introduce a large amount of new open minded members, to move them on to new tasks, or to completely disband the service and start again from scratch. I suspect none of these are viable. The other alternative being to convince them otherwise... which as you've said you get people who just stand there for the sake of it, and you would frankly get a more open minded conversation with a brick wall.

That said I see there being some interesting opportunities popping up. Jimster appears to be making moves to change some things, and I've been alerted to at least one potential change by a fellow hootooer. I suspect the front page is going to get a bit of a revamp.

The Post seems to be reviewing itself, which I think should hopefully produce a positive outcome - as I can't see a scenario where people wont be there to support it. So where does that leave the rest of h2g2?

AWW needs more people involved I think. More than just the UnderGuide perhaps. I did suggest in the group a while back that it might benefit from people focusing on certain aspects... by which I think I mean't perhaps different groups which have their own page and focus, and could add to the greater whole of the UnderGuide.

I always thought AggGagCac provided an excellent service, and they were certainly the ones to get me going. I can tell you for certain that you would not have seen more than two parts of 168 without it... and you'd have probably seen a hell of a lot less of me.

I think everyone has a story of what was their "catch" - the thing (or series of things) that kept them on h2g2 and inspired them to do something on it. Mine was two fold - The Terranic Army and The 168th Greatest Story in the Universe - A Tribute. Neither are really still going with any great zest, so my contribution has somewhat wained...

The Edited Guide has definately been a downer for me. I've never felt particularly welcomed there... its far too painful to try to do anything. My first entry "book cases" appeared without my notice, and was altered beyond its original humorous version. My Second Everton Football Club took an eternity to finish, and was far too painful... and appeared without my knowing. My third attempt on 42, was thrown out as they didn't want any reference to h2g2... and in all honesty I think Wikipedia would have been kinder on it - the entry was actually factual!

Wow this is a long post... just taking a breather here to take it all in. I'm almost beginning to lose my point.

I don't think enough is done to promote groups. Its down to a few talented hardworking indviduals to maintain them completely, and often they're shat upon by the people who sign up to the group. And yet the ironic thing is that the best part of h2g2 is the community... which wouldn't be a fraction of what it is without the groups!

I'd have liked to have seen a more guided version of CAVE. They were far too violent, but the idea was good - I actually tried to get something started before CAVE was a set up... actually I think one of the people who wanted to join started (or was involved in starting CAVE) was in my Table-Tag group. I know its probably uncomfortable for the staff, but if monitored carefully it could have been a great way for people to express themselves creatively... and its not as if everyone was able to do it so it wasn't going to be everyone using it. Surely it'd be the same as monitoring text.

Anyway, I think that there are so many parts of h2g2 with massive amounts of potential, which aren't reaching their potential for a number of reasons - some (many?) of which being beyond the Itallics control, who do a good job in difficult circumstances. But then I don't regularly interact with the powers that be.

I'll see if I can add anything to your PROD campaign if you don't mind. I'll perhaps see if theres anything that I can say that might be constructive in the forums. The Edited guide has never been my forte, but I did see someone say that perhaps there are too many forums. Perhaps if the more artistic and the literary were mixed a little bit more, they would rub off on each other and produce the perfect articles for their particular medium. Maybe

Anyway, I'd be intersted in hearing more on your thoughts,

Terran

Wow, that was a long post Don't mind though, I get a little long-winded when I'm being introspective about h2g2 too.

It would be helpful if you threw in your at the PROD page. Say, perhaps, why you never really were attracted to the EG. I've had a hard time convincing people that community minded people and newbies aren't stupid, they just don't feel welcomed in the EG. Interesting that such a simple idea should be so difficult to prove.

The scout's group contains a lot of fine minds. A few less than it used to have (Bossel sticks out in my mind as the greatest loss to the group... perhaps ever, but I haven't been here forever.) but nevertheless, an impressive group. I don't know if the people I would call enlightened are in the majority, but then I'm biased beyond belief anyway
The UG unfortunately has fewer great minds behind it than it used to as well. Do you know I'm the only original editor left? GTB and FwT are gone. Second generation miners, KJ and Nadia are gone. Tube is on some sort of sabbatical. I'm only around half the time and I can't be relied upon for anything significant. It's depressing. If I didn't know better, I'd say the site was dying slowly. Jims has said that the stats are up, but for me h2g2 just isn't the same place it used to be. The fine minds and personalities I knew or respected are largely gone...

I have a vision of how change can be acheived... but we have to win the, for lack of a better word, battle at PROD.

I recall the suggestion for different groups focusing on their specialties. It's something worth looking at. But I'll say something I said then - it should be outside of the UnderGuide while operating within the AWW and creative sector. I've tried to branch the UG off in the past in similar ways, and they've failed. Except for the CAC-C, which has only been failing lately.

The people attacking me and others over at PROD should realize the situation we're in before they act against us. We feel that h2g2 needs reinvigorating, and the EG is where we start.

Hi Jodan,

Sorry I haven't got back sooner, I was trying to find the perfect thing to say in PROD, but haven't managed it yet, so I think I'll just say something - anything - later tonight.

I too have thought like you, that the site is dying. I thought that for a long time. But do you know the conclusion I came to... is that I don't speak to enough people. I'm still going off the people I met when I first started, and the odd person I've met along the way. What I really need to do is reintroduce myself - I'm not famous enough anymore I need to go on one of my spamming missions that I used to get told off for years ago , and say hello to as many people as possible.

I just wonder if there are too many beaurocrats involved in h2g2 schemes, who would love nothing more than giving themselves a miles worth of red tape to cut, and would gleefully take an age to go through it. But thats the opinion of one old hootooer... my god I'm getting old. I'm also beginning to sound more like Marvin the paranoid Android, which is interesting (but not very interesting) because I used to go around conversations impersonating him when I first started. I never thought I'd be an old fart at 22.

But unfortunately theres too many old farts -like me- at the top of the schemes, which is stifling the enthusiastic newbies and turning them in to old farts before there time - like what happened to me

By the way I've been thinking of doing another one of my infamous name changes, but this time calling myself my real name - Steve. Would that be too revolutionary do you think?

Steve

Right I've added my

I think on reflection I'll keep to Terran. Can't have people getting confused again.

Terran

Hell, I still think of you as Vercingetorix (and I mispronounce it in my head by dropping a few letters...).

I'd love if we could keep that thread going. More intelligent debate there than in many other threads.

Hi Jodan,

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you I've just come back from holiday... literally right now.

I'll go over there and wake it up again if its asleep

Where'd you go/What'd you do?

Austria... it was great. The most relaxed I've been in agggeesss - I'm feeling all creative again

I don't know their politics (probably a good thing) but the people are all very friendly, and nothing like what I expected... I suspect they're actually quite different from the German people - a couple of whom I've met also, and they're great also.

But yeah I'd definately go there again. I even was in Innsbruck (for the airport), where a certain Mr Adams got an idea or two

Austria? Jeez, you Europeans get around

Did Innsbruck inspire you? I expect a cultural phenomenon or three coming out of you!