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Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist Started conversation May 23, 2008
Well the old rockpile is back in the news so I thought it might be time for me to vent my heretical spleen about it.
Few places on this good green earth get as much bollocks talked about them as Stonehenge. Every politically-ambitious archaeologist, drippy hippy and pompous pagan seems to want to theorize or venerate or preach about it and its origins. Perhaps it is time to step back and actually examine what this site really means to us here and now.
I have been going to Stonehenge since the late seventies. I was there for the free festivals in the early eighties, the battles of the late eighties and more recently for its reopening to the public at solstice. I have seen it go from hippy gathering, to battlefield, to Europe's largest neolithic rave site and finally to rededication as our national Pagan/Druid Cathedral.
I have no problem with the site per se. It is an amazing grouping of stones and deserves its place as a world heritage site. However, the attention it gets distracts from the hundreds of other sacred neolithic, bronze and iron age sites that dot our islands. There are larger henges than this, more complex ones and many that are under threat or all but abandoned/forgotten by English Heretics in favour of Stonehenge.
The truth is that it is EH's biggest money maker and it is very accessible to tourists. As a result it has become an arena of dreams and disappointments. People are drawn to it from all over the world and most leave feeling somewhat let down. It has suffered the fate of many world heritage sites and has become a must see like the Tower of London and Anne Hathaway's house.
In pagan terms it really has become the national cathedral, despite the fact that it is not the most special henge or stone circle in the British Isles. This was exemplified by the recent planning debacle when the government (keen to push a another major route through to the south-west) offered to pump heaps of money into the site and 'restore' its place in the landscape.
Every pagan worthy, and not a few fruitcakes too, lined up to preach to the enquiry. So vehement was the reaction to the government's preferred options that, fearing the spectacle of thousands of pagan protestors swamping any construction efforts on the evening news and trebling the costs, they abandoned all plans to improve the site altogether. English Heretics gnashed its teeth, Wiltshire Constabulary breathed a long sigh of relief, and the druid community walked off with a truly undeserved sense of achievement.
What makes me wonder is where were most of these self-important pagans when a quarry company wanted to turn Thornborough (a far larger and more impressive henge complex than Stonehenge) into an island, or when the Rollrights were desecrated, or a dozen other threats to our ancient heritage?
Fifty years ago, when the then Ministry of Works, re-erected many of the stones to produce the henge we know now, no-one batted an eyelid. Indeed most people thought it wonderful that this national treasure was getting a facelift. I cannot imagine the Legion of Whining Pagans allowing any future government to pour concrete into the site again.
The problem is that we, the pagan community, have got far too bloody precious about these sacred sites. We seem to have completely forgotten that Stonehenge was rebuilt several times during the pre-christian period. Each time to reflect the needs and desires of the times. Everything these days must be preserved in aspic lest we lose our romantic view of it.
It seems to me that this is reflection that for many pagans their 'religion' is actually dead. They will not stray from what little survives in terms of lore or archaeology from the pre-christian era. For example: I got into a row recently on one of the very best pagan fora regarding an observation by an ancient writer that when dining with some gauls he noted that the mead horn/cup/whatever was passed in one direction only, in fear of upsetting the gods. A few of the assembled and learned throng on the forum thought we should adopt this as a standard. Besides the fact that this was just one, non-gaulish, source I also pointed out that I could not imagine my gods giving a pink fig about which way I passed a cup. As usual I was the heretic... ho hum.
If the modern pagan paths are to survive and blossom then they must be fit for the age we live in now. Yes, respect the past, but live in the now. The gods have never left us and none, in my experience, wish to turn back to the clock.
Anyway now for the real heresy.
If I had control over Stonehenge I would do the following:
1. Excavate the entire site to a depth of thirty feet. No more of this pussy-footing around, let's give the archaeologists their head for ten years.
2. Re-erect every stone we can find and replace the ones we can't and restore the henge to its full glory.
3. Let the government have their bloody road tunnel and then restore the Avenue and other aspects of the original landscape.
4. Let people have unfettered access to the actual stones. You only need a couple of security/guides to stop the idle and the stupid from carving their names on them.
Then we would truly have a pagan cathedral for the 21st century.
Oh well, I am now expecting militant paramilitary druids to kick my door down any time now.........
[This can also be found on my wordpress blog - 'mochenddu'. Yup the old luddite has finally crawled into the 21st century, led byt erh example of Az and Eddie].
Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
Ragged Dragon Posted Jun 8, 2008
2. Re-erect every stone we can find and replace the ones we can't and restore the henge to its full glory.
But which period?
After all, the earliest hadn't any stones at all...
--
Jez - back off holiday
Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
Tumsup Posted Jun 30, 2008
Math, if you want your religion to be taken seriously, you need to stop treating it as something from the past. Instead of wasting effort on the old henges (which seem to belong to everyone anyway) why not build a new one?
You could have a competition for architects.
Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist Posted Jul 1, 2008
Hi Tumsup
If I had my way we would - however, there's a lot of sentimentality about the old henges, so a makeover seems to be a better option at present.
I don't treat my spirituality as something from the past. I am part of a 'new wave' of druid types who are bang up to date. Not for us the freezing our asses off in bedsheets on Salisbury Plain. We are much more interested in how our beliefs can serve the world here and now.
That said, there is a lot of wisdom to be found in the past and we shouldn't just throw that out with the bathwater. The trick is how you use that wisdom to inform your life now.
Blessings,
Matholwch .
Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
Tumsup Posted Jul 1, 2008
- The trick is how you use that wisdom to inform your life now.-
Well said, Math.
The debate over whether to restore ancient monuments is another issue. Some people want to repair the Acropolis, brilliant paint and all. Others like the ruin look.
My point was that Pagans have had bad press since two millennia and something to show it's a living thing would go a long way to offset that.
Also, I would like to enter the competition for a new henge.
Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist Posted Jul 3, 2008
Why a Henge Tumsup?
Why not a beautifully designed piece of woodland? Imagine a series of tree-lined 'cloisters', with occasional clearings, each featuring a different tree to match different moods and purposes.
Then, at the centre, a huge tree cathedral, mighty oaks, great elms and chesnuts and tall, stately ash trees surrounding a space capable of holding a thousand people. At its centre an emerald pool with stepping stones leading to a small island upon which is a carved stone altar or speaking place.
The cathedral space would be a slight bowl so that all can see the pool and the acoustics would allow all to hear.
Such a living cathedral would stir my heart far more than circle of stone.
Blessings,
Matholwch .
Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
Tumsup Posted Jul 3, 2008
You humble me Math, your vision is way more impressive than mine.
I think that the main difficulty in using living trees is that the 'structure' would take four or five hundred years to 'build'. Even if you could count on the trees surviving in our changing climate.
I wasn't actually thinking of a circle of stones. Starting with the idea that a henge may be some sort of an astronomical device and in keeping with the fact that the universe is so much bigger than it used to be, I was thinking of a sphere about 100m radius. A geodesic structure skinned with stained glass representations of the auld gods.
It would be a complete sphere floating in a socket, and able to turn with the earth so that, instead of the sky lining up with the stones, as happens only once a year, the 'stones' could track the sky.
It would have to have lots of doors all over it or maybe just one at the south pole.
In the daytime, people would go inside, at night it would be very impressive viewed from outside with a bright light inside.
Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist Posted Jul 4, 2008
And you said my vision is impressive...?
The Tree Cathedral should begin to mature in about thirty years, so I might just still be around if we started today/
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Stonehenge - National Icon or Pagan Cathedral?
- 1: Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist (May 23, 2008)
- 2: Ragged Dragon (Jun 8, 2008)
- 3: Tumsup (Jun 30, 2008)
- 4: Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist (Jul 1, 2008)
- 5: Tumsup (Jul 1, 2008)
- 6: Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist (Jul 3, 2008)
- 7: Tumsup (Jul 3, 2008)
- 8: Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist (Jul 4, 2008)
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