h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Justin,

firstly, I want to make sure you get my apology. If I offended you with comments or attempts at humour, then I am sorry. I should think before I post.

Having seen that you were being pre-modded, it occurred to me to wonder why. It also occurred to me that in many cases a person with a worthwhile message gets drowned out or shouted down by those who do not agree or will not keep an open mind.

Being someone who thinks of himself as open minded, I realised that I was being just the opposite. That was quite wrong of me. I also notice that plenty of people seem quite willing to line up and decry what you're saying without even the attempt to understand it.

So I thought that I should at least make an attempt, and do properly - by putting aside my preconceptions about Christianity and by listening to what you have to say. I will probably ask a lot of foolish questions too.

The quotation you have heading your personal space - does it refer in part to baptism? From my limited understanding, this would mean that one would accept Jesus as the one true way to God (and salvation) and then seek out a baptism into his (and this feels like the wrong word, but I don't know how else to put it) church. Or do I have this wrong?

Gradient,

Thank you. But don't worry about it, it is par for the course for a Christian. It is a badge of honour to any child of God, and I would be very worried indeed if it were not as it is.

New birht is nothing to do with baptism in water. It is baptism in the Holy Spirit of God which changes someone from a child of Satan to a child of God. Behaviour modification is of no use before God. Christ did not give His life to give people a relgion about Himself, but to facilitate a nature change in those He came for.

What you perceive to be His 'church' is nothing to do with it, I would guess. Most of what you see that claims to be His is not with Him and does not do what He says. In amongst churchgoers in all sorts of churches in the land you will find some (real) Christians. A handful in the Anglican/Methodist religion, and a few more in Baptist or Pentecostal circles. But the Church is not a visible entity, and only those who have been born again are members of it.

Yours, Justin

I knew I was wrong about the word church.

I suppose a following or gathering is inapropriate too, as is Ministry. Never mind - new understandings make new vocabularies.

I think I'm beinging to understand, and I can see why many would have a problem seeing the meaning of what you say. What you describe is akin to 'original' Christianity.

I am aware, for example, that the adpotion of the Christian faith by the Roman emperor Constantine was a political move to unify his empire under one faith. This move, which leads to the church of Rome, is essentially a work of man, not God (although many Catholics I know would disagree with me heartily). So what you speak of strikes me as the word of God as Jesus himself would have expressed and taught it. The baptism in water is a useful ritual to mark a change, but I also understand what you mean about a spiritual birth and a spiritual baptism (in a rather limited sense, because I have not experienced it and cannot therefore understand it in the same way you do).

As I suspected, things are so much clearer when I actually listen!

Thank you!

Gradient,

You are right. Far from being the one true church the RC religion is the product of political expediency, and did not exist before the mid-300's AD. It is nothing whatever to do with God.

Water baptism is an outward sign of an inward reality, and is ordained of God, (full immersion, not baby sprinkling as practiced by pope/frock religionists, post God given repentence.)

Unless someone has had new birth, actually and really, unlike the notional stuff practiced by those mentioned above, then all you have is empty religion ABOUT God, and you might as well go and be a Hindu, or Muslim.

J.

Fair enough.

I have to say, I am fascinated by the things you are telling people.
There is some stuff that people object to without understanding where you're coming from, and that seems to be making them hostile to you without there being a reason.

For example: You know all too well that I, as a person who has not found Christ, will end up in Hell. I know you are stating this as a fact and are not saying anything about me as a person. I think that's what throws most people...but since I started listening to what you're saying rather than reacting to it, a lot of things have become clearer.

I'm now interested in The Tribulation, which I have seen mentioned in the thread about The Passion. This is new to me. I was raised Church of England and the Rapture and Tribulation were not things that we were taught about. Mind you, it might have helped if I'd listened more closely at the time . So. What can you tell me about the Tribulation/Rapture? Links will do nicely if the subject is lengthy or complex!

Thanks!

Gradient,

The Church of England teaches very little, so I am not surprised. Even if you got a saved 'minister'(about 2-3% of Anglican ministers) you are not likely to hear such things preached.

The great tribulation precedes the final winding up of all things. There are horrific things prophesied, and it will come to pass. You can read about them in Revelation. There are so many ideas about all this that I don't think it is good to go into it all. However, when the Lord God begins judgement on the Earth then it is going to be very, very, unpleasant.

The rapture of the church happens, depending on which position you take, just before the main outpouring of the wrath of God on Earth when the tribulation begins, or during/after it. My own position is that because the church is the salt and light in the Earth that He will take out His people, the restraining factor, before judgement here begins.

But, unless you find Him while you are alive knowledge of these things is wholly academic.

J.