h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

If that's his goal, it won't work. I hae been reading a lot here, even before I started posting, so I doubt he can shock me that much.

BTW, congradulations on the trick you played on JTP, pretending to be a fundamentalist like him. It fooled me.

"Or would you have all us parents totally abandon our cultures and enter Aldous Huxley's Brave New World? Where the alternative is a government controlled diet of homogenized, culture and conflict free education?"

I'm not sure. I'll have to think on that.

"One of your saddest assumptions is that most people who have some sort of faith only have it because they were brainwashed. You really give far too much credit to both parents and the 'clergy'. Could it not be that many people hold onto their faith because they see some sense in it and because it serves a personal need in themselves?"

Perhaps. I have to admit I don't really know why people have faith, as my parents didn't raise me with any religion. (Neither are atheists. My mom is Catholic and my dad seems to be against oranized religion, but not absolutely against some religious ideas)

"If we look at the evidence children normally lose their faith in a God around the age of twelve (it outlasting Santa and the Tooth Fairy by three years on average). Of those adults you see all about you who profess a faith, over 75% have refound it in later life. Which rather confounds your assumption on the brainwashing."

I haven't seen much evidence of that. Frankly, many of the high schools students that I atend school with seem quite religious.

"Indeed it is positively amazing that anyone regains any faith whatsoever, given the cultural climate in which we live. Where holding any sort of faith is misunderstood, demeaned and stigmatized. To many small-minded people it is tantamount to admitting to having a mental illness."

That may describe the UK (where I'm pretty sure yu said you live), but it doesn't seem to describe the part of the US I live in, where protestant Christianity seems to be the center of culture. News media almost assumes everyone is a protestant Christian, and so do a lot of people. (I once had a public school teacher who tried to convert me to Christianity and encouraged her students to do so as welkl, but that's another story.)

"So why do we bother? What drives us to continue despite the prejudice?"

I don't know. I'm not even sure what you mean by coninue? Continue to be faithful? Continue to talk about this? Please clarify.

"This is one of the most interesting and long-running debates here on h2g2. I would love you to contribute to that debate, but I would advise you to leave your assumptions at the door or you are going to get a fair old bouncing about"

I intend to contribute and will try to leave my ideas at the door.

If you're going to leave your ideas at the door, what in the name of are you going to contribute? Your liver?
Your spleen? Your random typing abilities? Perhaps if there were an infinite number of you with random typing abilities you could contribute a new script of Hamlet.

Hi Eto . Good chap, back for more I see . Don't listen to old Fnord, I'm not here to beat you up. But I am happy to challenge your assumptions, especially if they are unsupported....? As you have read some of the JtP vs Math backlog you can see that I don't agree with mental/verbal assault and thus you are safe. Just cry 'pax' and I'll back off . Now that you have revealed that you are from one of the less enlightened areas of the States I can understand your perceptions. I can tell you now that if I lived there and professed my faith 'ridicule' would be the least of my worries. Friends of mine in Georgia are publically practicing Druids and have had much worse, including death threats and even a burning cross on the lawn. So much for 'love thy neighbour'. The following will take you to the infamous 'God' thread, now into is 8400th posting so don't try and reads the whole backlog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/F55607?thread=192835 I look forward to engaging in pleasant debate with you. Blessings, Matholwch /|\. PS: Do not assume that just because someone is willing to talk about their religion or faith that they automatically want to convert you.

Listen to old Fnord, it's an instinct in all alpha humans to persuade others of their views, and it's an instinct to do it that way, whether consciously or not.You, Math, ought to be ashamed claiming otherwise. Examing your wishes.
It may have been a good trick to play on JTP but I lost my temper the day after it started, so it didn't work for long.
PS. Do assume that because people are willing to talk about their faith, they are trying to convert you.

Math,

I hope they're not unsupported--but I guess we'll see. Feel free to challenge them. If they are unsuupported, I want to know so /I can replace them. I don't like unsupported assumptions.

"Do not assume that just because someone is willing to talk about their religion or faith that they automatically want to convert you."

I don't. My earlier comments only applied to people trying to convert me. I'm perfectly willing to accept that not eveyone is trying to convert me and have a polite discussion with those who aren't.

Eto
______________________________________________________________________

Ford,

I see your point. However, some people aren't alpha (although I am). Also, while someone's deeper motives may be to convert you, they may have at least some surface hope of not acting in such a way. I try to, but admit to not being very good at, respect people's intentions, even if their instincts are causing them to act differently.

Eto

"If you're going to leave your ideas at the door, what in the name of are you going to contribute? Your liver?
Your spleen? Your random typing abilities? Perhaps if there were an infinite number of you with random typing abilities you could contribute a new script of Hamlet."

Well, my plan would be to leave my ideas at the door, listen to people, then come back for my ideas and contribute those that still make sence after I've heard what others have said.

bable

A reply to this post that began...

>>Also clear examples of why the christian god is good. He despises evil particularly that done against his goodness and the people he has called to be holy.<<

The problem you still haven't addressed - or even noticed - is that you only need one single one of the original examples - and there are many, many more in the OT and some in the NT as well - to disprove the idea that the god of the Christians, Jews and Moslems is good.

A proof requires all the evidence - ALL the evidence - to be consistent with the hypothesis to be proven, or it falls.

The hypothesis that the Christian god is good fell with Adam and Eve in the very first book of the Bible he is supposed to have inspired.

Jez - heathen and witch (just so that you know where I am coming from )

Anhaga wrote...

>>Anyway, I suspect the people who upset you would call me a filthy heathen.<<

Erm... I object to that quite strongly - the heathens I know all wash regularly. Even when camping...

Jez - heathen and witch
--
A megalith is for life, not just for solstice.

I certainly did not mean to offend heathens with my comment about filthiness. I don't think heathens are filthy; I was suggesting that certain people would likely think that because of the things I write I am both a heathen and filthy.

Concerning the original question of the thread: What exactly is the "Christian God"? Is it the God followed by the Christians described in these links?:


http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/05/31/rudolph_030531
http://www.religioustolerance.org/cr_ident.htm
http://www.kingidentity.com/

(check out this help wanted ad from the last site:
http://www.kingidentity.com/cla-kim.html )

Or is the "Christian God" the one followed by the thousands of other groups that call themselves Christian? Who decides?

The individual, as always, naturally.

Hmm, I wonder if there's anyone left with this still in their conversation lists...

I do. But I can't remember why.

So have I - but I think the case is proven.

The Christian god as portrayed by his own qords (if they are accurately recorded by his followers) is not a 'good' god.

QED

Jez

ooops - qords should read words



Jez

If there is a 'good' god/godess would he/she put up with this;

http://www.kingidentity.com/special.htm


Alji

okay, I'll line up some arguments:

The people behind the web page would say "of course He would put up with it; He supports and promotes it because it is His good work"

Some would argue "humans have free-agency/free-will. It isn't up to God to drop down and correct every little evil that humans do. It's not God's fault that humans do evil, and that web page does not at all tarnish His goodness."


Some would argue "the existence of evil in a world precludes the existence of an all-good creating god/goddess".

Some would argue "look at the evil shite that Christians do. Christians are evil fools."

Some would argue "there's no such thing as God, so what are you all on about?"

This could go on for some time. I find none of the arguments satisfying. Except perhaps the last.

Its in my list, but it is rather pointless when everyone agrees.

Which invalidates your post a little, eh?
I'm not so sure everyone does agree. We all have differing views. For example, recently I've started believing that a) JTP was NOT for real, and b) he's the best thing that ever happened to me on H2G2, and c) he might have been right.