h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Man still is elevated above animals by the fact that he contains the one gift that made him higher, Free will. So how does this still contradict with the bible?

RMF,

I am not sure what you are talking about. I am a reasonable Bible student; I have a Bible College Degree, and I know of no such contradiction. But if you are one of the superior folks on this board who, despite being unsaved, and not knowing Jesus Christ, like all the (real) Christians do,and who has only scant/schoolboy knowledge of the Bible perhaps you are going to join hands with the others and try and instruct a man of God. I hope you will not be stupid.

There are NO contradictions in the Bible BUT there are MANY apparent contradictions, by which those who are determined to continue in sin and call God a liar thereby can feel quite justified in doing so.

The things of God are no up for debate. A (real) Christian (there are many, many, nominals) will tell you God's absolute truth,and if you don't receive it, will walk away.

I didn't say the bible contradicted itself, I just keep hearing from people that evolution contradicts the bible, I still don't see how.

RMF,

OK, sorry if I misread you. There is no mention of evolution in the Bible, it is not taught, not aluded to, and not even obliquely mentioned. Creation is very definitely revealed to be the truth. Almighty God has no reason to be involved in a long drawn out process when He can create it, exactly as you see it, in a flash.

Justin

That is OK that you misread me.

But what if you take into account that Ancient Hebrew isn't to figurative and couldn't even allow for large stretches of time? And Evolution, no matter what you veiw is on it, evolution is complicated even now, Imagine how hard it would have been if you were a nomad in the desert whoses only concerns were food, water, and Egyptian soilders?

RMF,

Like so many who do not know God, like all (real) Christians do, you do not allow for the agency of God, and you go by wretched reason alone.

From your perspective, where you assume that you are dealing with a mere philosophy which can be handled by the wretched tools such as intellect/theology, you would be right. However, Almighty God is not a philosophical proposition, but a Person, like you are, only not a man.

It is common among the blind and ignorant enemies of God to think as you do, and I would have thought that way myself once. However, having been brought to Jesus Christ, by the sovereign grace of God towards me, like all (real) Christians, and having heard Him speak to me, like all (real) Christians, and now knowing Him, I would not dare insult Him by suggesting that He was a mere philosophy, like the gods of pagan religions.

He is Almighty God. He is a real as you are, only more so. You are cut off from Him by sin. He gave His Son's life that sin may be removed from you and you can know Him. Seek out the Lord Jesus while you can.

"Seek the Lord while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near."

Justin

Hi Justin .

"I would not dare insult Him by suggesting that He was a mere philosophy, like the gods of pagan religions."

As I am ignorant in the ways of the Bible so are you ignorant in the 'pagan religions' . If you were to spend just a little time looking into the pagan religions I think that you would find that to most pagans their Gods are as real as yours, and not 'mere philosophy'.

Please do not confuse the rather confused mysticism of the new age movement with those of us who revere the old Gods.

Also I am getting somewhat tired of being described as a 'blind and ignorant enemy of God'. I am not your God's enemy, at least not by my choice, if he regards me as an enemy then that is for him to declare - not you.

If all that disagree with your interpretation of the divine nature of being are truly 'blind and ignorant' then that, by analogy, makes you enlightened and wise. Unfortunately you seem to hide this enlightnment and wisdom under a bushel for you show little of it here on h2g2. If you did, and approached the members of this forum with courtesy and respect, you might find more accord for your views rather than the "blasphemous inanities" you continually harangue us about.

Blessings from your friend,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

And there's nowt wrong with "mere philosophy" anyways.

Philo -love sophia - wisdom.

"I don't know what it means, but I'm agin it." Grumpy the dwarf

Noggin

"There are NO contradictions in the Bible BUT there are MANY apparent contradictions" Sorry. There are nothing BUT contradictions in the Bible. It takes a conscious effort of will to pretend otherwise. On a lark, I checked your contradiction debunking link, and went to the first one... Genesis 1 and 2, or Two Completely Unrelated Tales of Creation. The argument there is only an "apparent" explanation. You have to turn your brain off in order to accept it. Creation 2 is not a restatement of Day 6 in Creation 1, because it specifically says that plants, animals, and water do not yet exist when Adam is created. If it were all one story, presented coherently, then that would not be the case. Creation 1 tells the story of creation in 6 days. Creation 2 tells a different story of creation in one day, and in a much less plausible order, and then goes on to give us the misogynistic myth of Adam and Eve.

BTW... I love the part where Adam has all the animals parading before him, but none tickle his fancy, so God is forced to make woman.

"by which those who are determined to continue in sin and call God a liar thereby can feel quite justified in doing so." - I never call God a liar. It's like calling your child's invisible friend an ill-kempt slob.

"A (real) Christian (there are many, many, nominals) will tell you God's absolute truth,and if you don't receive it, will walk away." - Why is it always the case that the only real Christian is the one you're talking to, and anyone who might happen to agree with that person on every particular?

Feel free to ask me further questions about the Bible, and I'll be glad to show you exactly how little you know about it... Bible College degree or not.

Blatherskite,

You are utterly wrong. You will never come to any understanding until you start at square one with the One who wrote the Bible. All Christians know God, and without Him you will never see or understand.

The link I put up to a site which explains apparent contradictions in the Bible was put up quickly for the likes of you trolls. There are several other sites which go into the technical details of why things are as they are in the Bible, but, as one who is determined not to believe God you are not going to accept anything you are told even if heartstopping miracles were performed under your nose.

As Jesus said, "Though one rose from the dead they will not believe."

Thank you for your kind offer, but no man of God needs any instruction from any Satanist, (whether a witting, or unwitting, one).

You must be born again of the Spirit of God. When you know God the Father, through the Lord Jesus Christ, you will understand the Word of God. All the time you end up trying to understand the Word of God by the pathetic and wretched tools of intellect, reason, debate, etc, you will never understand, and will remain in the stupefying ignorance you are currently in.

You're absolutely right... in a way...

"You will never come to any understanding until you start at square one with the One who wrote the Bible."

Unless I start at square one with the absolutely unsupported assumption that the Hebrew god, in his common conception, actually wrote the Bible, then there is absolutely no way I can make any sense of it. Because, of course, it does make no sense.

Only the blind faith you have makes you *think* it makes sense to you. That, and the fact that I've noticed Bible "scholars" mostly tend to break up the work piecemeal, studying a bit here and there, rather than taking it as a whole. You miss all the really silly or mean parts that way, because the scholars purposely lead you past them, or isolate them so you can't see them in context.

I see you have declined my challenge for debate on the Bible. I would think that if it was written by someone omniscient and omnipotent, it would be all too easy for you to use it against my pathetic skills of reason. You haven't even bothered to comment on my analysis of Creation 1 and 2. Clearly you have no interest in examining that which you *think* you know. It's a stupefying behavior... why would you believe every word of the person who turned you to God, and then assume everyone who contradicts that man's word is a servant of this Satan fellow? What makes you so sure you're listening to the right person?

Blatherskite,

If you start from the absolutely unsupported that Almighty God is not who He says He is and has shown Himself to be, both in Creation, by prophets, and by the sending of His own Son to be crucified in your place, you will never see anything, and your proposition is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't know any man of God who does as you say, though there are theologians who do that I am sure, but they are not Christians anyway.

I don't decline a debate about the Bible for any reason other than no matter what I say to you you are determined that you are not going to believe anyway. If you saw miracles with your own eyes, as they saw Jesus do, you would not believe, and, had you been there, you would have been baying for His blood as they were. You are a sinner. Everything in you hates God.

I do not have to examine what I think, as it is related to Him whom I know. I do not follow men. I listen to, and check what any man tells me.

You are still making the gross presumption that all I have is a philosophy which is up for challenge. What you are trying to do is equivalent to trying to move me from faith in the existence of my Mother. She exists, I know her. The same is true of God. I know Him, you don't. Don't try and teach me please.

Justin, if I remember you say you deny the Catholic faith and the council of Nicea. However, you also believe the Bible to be the Word of God even though the Bible is a creation of the Catholic church and was never proscribed by Christ himself.

Zagreb,

The Bible is not a product of any man. You thesis denies Almighty God, and accuses Him of being unable to make sure a written record of His Word to man is available. God does things in spite of the Catholic religion. They are under His control, as all human beings are, and if He chose to allow them to do certain things to fulfill His purposes then fine. He allowed Nubuchnezzar to do things to fulfill His purposes, so He has no problem with a bunch of deceived souls.

I am sure you mean 'prescribed', and not 'proscribed'; how do you know. Prove your case. I am a reasonable Bible student and I can tell you that your position is ridiculous.

Justin

Can you not see the overwhelming hubris in your responses? You are armed with a very small repertoir of standardized responses:

To the skeptic: "You serve Satan."

To the religious person who does not agree with you: "You are not a Christian."

It's pretty childish.

Declining to debate someone because they will refuse to see your side is also a childish cop-out. I know that you are steadfast in your refusal to believe my side, but don't project your behavior onto me. It's my open-mindedness towards the question of god that has allowed me to reach the insights you lack. If the Bible were as you say it is, then it would be self-evident, and any appeal to logic would support, rather than tear down, the case for the Bible and god.

And to support Zagreb's point and introduce one of my own at the same time... Clement of Alexandria (surely a Bible scholar such as yourself is familiar with him) wrote a letter to a Theodore regarding the Carpocratian heresy. Clement provides the text of the few paragraphs of Mark that support the Carpocratian, which deal with some intimacy between Jesus and Lazarus. Clement tells us that those paragraphs have since been removed, and, sure enough, none of the oldest copies contain the text in question. Clement's letter clearly demonstrates that the New Testament was being edited prior to the Council at Nicea. And we have no copies which predate the Council... presumably, they've all been destroyed.

Here's the text of the letter from Clement, along with some very good information concerning it: http://www.mahatmarandy.com/SecretMark.htm

Doesn't look like your god did a very good job of preserving his word, did he?

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never suggested you possessed anything as intellectually sophisticated as a Philosophy. Philosophy requires a deal of thought, and especially the thoughtful evaluation of one's own thoughts in the light of one's experience, and vice versa. Whereas
And it shows.



Who starts from this assumption? The assumption itself only makes sense on the assumption that God exists, and that it is He who is making the claim. Since God (if He exists) has not chosen to speak to me at all, I have to start elsewhere.

So, do you deny

1) Certain people claim (whether rightly or wrongly) that God has spoken to or through them?

2) That some of these people, in the distant past, wrote down certain of these words that now form the Bible?

3) That you yourself have frequently said that most people who believe (1) are in fact mistaken?

So the only totally unsupported assumption that I can see being made here is that you can't be mistaken.

Noggin

Blather,

I just tell you what Almighty God, whom, like all (real) Christians, I know, says.

"Whatsoever is not of faith is SIN."

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

All human beings are in one of the two camps. It is nothing to do with childishness or hubris, I merely state the truth.

You are making another mistake. You assume that the 'higher criticism' way of looking at things is the right way. But God has made sure that those who take your position will never see it.

"n that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight."

I have told you that logic, debate, dispute, theology, philosophy, etc, will never discover the truths of God. I don't bother to engage in debate as I have God, and I know you will not ever understand by that way. You are trying to get to Alaska by going to Australia when the route is not that way at all. You believe what you wish. It is not the function of a man of God to engage in debate, but to state the truth; if you don't accept it, then walk away.

Hang around, you will have all the answers you need. You will either be born again of the Spirit of God, and you will see what Christians do, and you too will be exasperated with the stupidity and foolishness determination to destroy God of such people as yourself, or you will die first, and go to Hell.

Almighty God has said, "It is appointed unto men once to die, and then the Judgement." You know the first bit of that is true, as you must have been to funerals.

You, like all enemies of God, and what He loves, will believe one way or another.

"As I live saith the Lord, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess to God." You too.

Noggin,

I know God, like all his people do; that is, about 0.5% of the British people. You still persist in the ridiculous notion that it is some sort of philosophy which requires thought, education, reason, evidence, etc. Almighty God, who made you and owns you, is a Person.

But without thought, reason, evidence etc. the term 'know' is just a meaningless noise. You say you know your mother; but surely you know her on the basis of the evidence of your senses in the first instance; and you know her in a deeper sense because you make consistent connections between her various actions in the light of your general knowledge of people, so that they are not merely random, and this making of connections is a form of logic, or reason. Your knowledge of her is BASED on evidence and reason. Equally importantly it is based on evidence and reason in a public, shared space; it can be tested, compared with the conclusions of others, corrected if necessary.
So have another look at post 16. Are my three points correct? Not a hard question. How are they connected together? Perhaps you don't see any connection. Perhaps you do. Where's the difficulty in answering the question? If you're right, you do no one any favours by giving the impression that you are constantly avoiding questions because in fact you don't have any answers.

Noggin

Noggin,

In one sense you are right. You must have seen the link I posted to my testimony on the internet. God engineered my repentence, and brought me to Himself. He spoke to me, and continues to do so. He radically changed me, and I am very different to how I was. However, I did not arrive where I am by the wretched tools of intellect/theology. I am what I am by the sovereign work of the grace of God in my life. And unless He sort you out you are never going to know or understand.

I do not have the time to go back through umpteen posts to see your post 16. I have plenty of answers, but the things you ask are either not for your ears, or, no matter what evidence I produced for you, including heart stopping miracles, you would not believe anyway. So I would rather not start in the first place. I have long experience in dealing with folks like you and your master.