h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Justin .

Let me focus your mind here a little Justin:

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

According to your previous postings on this subject when Jesus comes again the saved will go to a new, sinless earth (where Jesus shall rule over them) and the unsaved to hell. I think you said it was for a thousand years, and then the Judgement.

If this is so, re-read the quote above. Even those in death and hell will be judged according to their works. Works Justin, not faith. It could not be clearer. This is the inerrant Word of God Justin. It doesn't need fancy interpretation, you have said so yourself.

Oh, and one little point, I don't have a master. I am not a slave, but a free-willed spirit, as your God intended. Only those without free will have a master. So what are you?

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Matholwch,

You are not going to understand even if you do 'focus my mind', as you are determined not to understand, and will not listen to what I tell you anyway, regardless how much irrefutable proof is put in front of you. It is highly likely you will still refuse to believe God when you are stood there before Jesus yourself, though, in you will absolutely have to.

No, I did not say any such thing. Hell exists NOW. Many people you are I have known are there, NOW. Hell DOES NOT exist post Judgement, as both death and Hell are cast into the lake of fire, with your master, before you or your compatriots face your judgement.Rev.20:14.

I did not say that anyone would 'go to Hell for a thousand years either'. Many have been in Hell for much longer than that, in some cases six thousand years, already.

Sure, what you read does say that they will be judged according to their works, but you are looking at an overview of the situation, not a full exposition of every detail. The Bible is not a legal book written in legalese. All Scripture agrees, and it is plain from elsewhere that the unsaved ONLY have a check made for their name in the Book of Life, Rev.20:15.

Jesus plainly stated that He would sort out the sheep from the goats.

When you read Rev.20 you are reading an overview. Plainly, as, elsewhere in Scripture, it is obvious that the Lord's people's lives are gone through, and they are rewarded according to their deeds, good or bad. It is also obvious that to even get to that point one has to have been saved in the first place. Salvation happens HERE while people are still alive.

I don't know why you are bothering, it can only condemn you, as all you can see is you and your compatriots the Druids,like the Archbishop of Canterbury, are lost, with the Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, Buddhists, Hindus, JW's etc. Why don't you just go off and discuss the nebulous inane irrelevances found all over this site with those who love those things, and leave reality alone? It is only going to make your unhappy. You do not know what you are talking about, yet presume to teach me! It would be funny if it were not so sick.

You call yourself, gleefully, an 'apostate', when you are no such thing, as you never were the Lord's in the first place; you never knew Him, and never heard Him speak to you. You were in a pseudo-Christian religion ABOUT Him - without Him. It is therefore utterly impossible to apostatise from what you were never in.

You are just a straightforward unsaved congenital enemy of God, desperately seeking to destroy the gospel, and God, if you could get at Him, in order to avoid the inevitable, and make yourself feel more comfortable in your sin. You are, in short, a sinner, like 99% of the British people, as I once was too. Why not go and enjoy your sin and leave what I put up alone? You cannot win. I am much too well trained,by the grace of God, to be caught out by enemy agents like you. I know your master's standard gambits, of which this red herring is one. Even if I conclusively proved, from Scripture, that your position is wrong, having spent long hours doing so, you would only reject it when cornered, as you don't believe God anyway.

Best go dance naked round bonfires in the middle of the night, and blow rams horns at Stonehenge, with the Archbishop of Canterbury, while awaiting your certain death and judgement before Christ, eh. Best enjoy what little time you have left, and forget about Almighty God and His claims on you, as you are going to be spending a long, long, time wishing you had listened, in utter anguish, unless you repent of your wickedness.

OK Spook

Justin, just one question. This Bible College Degree of yours, what college was it? I'm sure that others, Christian and non alike, would also be interested.

Thanks in advance

Hi Justin .

Such a full reply to such as me, I'm honoured indeed. let's see what we have here then...

"You are not going to understand even if you do 'focus my mind', as you are determined not to understand, and will not listen to what I tell you anyway, regardless how much irrefutable proof is put in front of you. It is highly likely you will still refuse to believe God when you are stood there before Jesus yourself, though, in you will absolutely have to."

The proof to which you refer was most recently put in front of me by you. The quotation I used was precisely the one you used to make a point about faith not works, which it directly contradicted. I am listening very carefully to all that you say here on h2g2, and questioning it when it is contradictory, unclear or simply untrue.

"No, I did not say any such thing. Hell exists NOW. Many people you are I have known are there, NOW. Hell DOES NOT exist post Judgement, as both death and Hell are cast into the lake of fire, with your master, before you or your compatriots face your judgement.Rev.20:14."

OK, I'm happy to agree with you there. Hell exists now, but that does not contradict what I was saying about works not faith, now does it?

"Sure, what you read does say that they will be judged according to their works, but you are looking at an overview of the situation, not a full exposition of every detail. The Bible is not a legal book written in legalese. All Scripture agrees, and it is plain from elsewhere that the unsaved ONLY have a check made for their name in the Book of Life, Rev.20:15. "

Really, all scripture? I shall consult my bible on that one and get back to you for I doubt seriously that this is so. Simply the fact that the 'overview' contradicts other parts of the Bible must surely prove that all scripture does not agree.

"Jesus plainly stated that He would sort out the sheep from the goats."

Nice asimile, but it is his criteria we are looking at not the act itself.

"When you read Rev.20 you are reading an overview. Plainly, as, elsewhere in Scripture, it is obvious that the Lord's people's lives are gone through, and they are rewarded according to their deeds, good or bad. It is also obvious that to even get to that point one has to have been saved in the first place. Salvation happens HERE while people are still alive."

This is where you begin to show up your God as being capricious and cruel. Why do we have the parable of the Good Samaritan if Jesus is not saying that even those outside the chosen can be good enough to be saved? Your miserable interpretation of the scripture would have us believe that good people, who live lives that would otherwise meet every tenet and commandment of God's word, but who had unfortunately never heard of God, are condemned to the lake of fire. As for the babies, you have already condemned your God as a baby-killer.

"I don't know why you are bothering, it can only condemn you, as all you can see is you and your compatriots the Druids,like the Archbishop of Canterbury, are lost, with the Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, Buddhists, Hindus, JW's etc."

Let's get one thing straight for all time shall we? The Archbishop of Canterbury is not a druid. He was inducted into the strictly social order of the Gorsedd of Bards of Wales. This organisation was set up in the 19th century by good, god-fearing chapel men to promote Welsh Language and Literature. It is still a christian organisation to this day. He was inducted because of his theological writings in Welsh. The order includes many of Wales greatest modern poets and writers, none of whom are pagans. Don't believe the hate-mail of the evangelical right.

"Why don't you just go off and discuss the nebulous inane irrelevances found all over this site with those who love those things, and leave reality alone? It is only going to make your unhappy. You do not know what you are talking about, yet presume to teach me! It would be funny if it were not so sick."

Because you continue to peddle hatred and falsehoods to all and sundry. I think it important that a reasoned counter-argument is available to those that read your blatant bigotry .

I remain because I feel you need friends who can help you through your crisis of faith. I do not presume to teach you, but I reserve my democratic right to question you and challenge the foolishness you often spout. For instance your condemnation of homosexuals and adulterers and proclamation that they should, perhaps, be executed.

In addition I stand here to protect your freedom of speech. While I and others continue to actively engage you, the site moderators can see that a balanced debate is taking place. If you were left to rant alone, I doubt that you would last a week before being banned.

"You call yourself, gleefully, an 'apostate', when you are no such thing, as you never were the Lord's in the first place; you never knew Him, and never heard Him speak to you. You were in a pseudo-Christian religion ABOUT Him - without Him. It is therefore utterly impossible to apostatise from what you were never in."

Ah, but there we will never agree. I have been declared apostate by a Catholic priest. A man who has dedicated his entire life to the service of the Church of St.Peter. Not some jumped up, self-appointed, johnny-come-lately. I was christened and confirmed a Catholic and until you can prove otherwise it is the only church with a direct, God-approved line of succession back to the Disciples and thus Jesus himself. And never forget that without the Holy Roman Church you would never have heard the word of God, you'd just be another pagan like the rest of us.

"You are just a straightforward unsaved congenital enemy of God, desperately seeking to destroy the gospel, and God, if you could get at Him, in order to avoid the inevitable, and make yourself feel more comfortable in your sin."

You desperately need to believe that I am your enemy don't you? You really need that feeling of persecution. Strangely if you ask any other Christian here if I have made any attempt to shake their faith or draw them away from their God you will find that I have not. Indeed I support anyone who wishes to access and develop their spirituality. However, I will not stand idly by and watch someone peddle hatred and bigotry.

"You are, in short, a sinner, like 99% of the British people, as I once was too. Why not go and enjoy your sin and leave what I put up alone?"

It is quite possible that if you take the plethora of scriptural offences that are considered sinful, then I am guilty. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. However, I am only guilty of one sin in your philosophy, that of not being chosen. If what it takes to free me from sin is for your God to author faith in me, and His choice is not motivated by any faith I may try to engender myself or by my good works, then the guilt lies not with me for my unchosen status, but with Him.

"You cannot win. I am much too well trained, by the grace of God, to be caught out by enemy agents like you. I know your master's standard gambits, of which this red herring is one."

Is there no end to your paranoia? You proclaim me an enemy of your God, but have no proof. I am an agent of Satan in your view, yet my actions belie that. So where do you get this from unless it is from the old "if ye're not fer us ye're agin us" principle. Very convenient, but hardly grounded in reality.

"Even if I conclusively proved, from Scripture, that your position is wrong, having spent long hours doing so, you would only reject it when cornered, as you don't believe God anyway."

But you cannot conclusively prove from scripture can you? I have never been cornered yet, unlike you. We've been at this daily for months and you have not proved one jot or tittle of your bigotry. Either the proof for your twisted interpretation of one of history's greatest books does not exist, or you are just too poor a preacher to find or explain it.

"Best go dance naked round bonfires in the middle of the night, and blow rams horns at Stonehenge, with the Archbishop of Canterbury, while awaiting your certain death and judgement before Christ, eh."

You claim to be trained too well by the grace of God to be caught out by me, yet your ignorance of other faiths is almost boundless. Druids don't dance naked around bonfires at midnight. A few druids have blown rams horns at Stonehenge for the same reason that Christian churches ring bells. It is a way of summoning people, not a religious ritual as you obviously would like to imply.

My death is certain, my appointment with Jesus is not yet proven.

"Best enjoy what little time you have left, and forget about Almighty God and His claims on you, as you are going to be spending a long, long, time wishing you had listened, in utter anguish, unless you repent of your wickedness."

And we are back to the threats of eternal torment. Is fear the only reason for anyone to hearken to your ministry Justin? Is it what motivates you? For it is the only method you use to try and convince people to turn to Jesus. Very sad indeed.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Justin - i spoke today with someone who went to bible college a long time ago and knows loads and loads about christianity, and he has told me that John 1 says that to be a christian you must believe in God with your mind and heart and you become a christian. he also says that God does call us to service, but not directly through voice, but through his word or through things that happen, and he can do this at any time, and you do not have to hear God call you before you become a christian.

spook

Hi Spook. I happen to agree with the thrust of your posts here. It is interesting too that Justin has apparently made something of a retraction or concession in response to your earlier posts (see above).

I am intrigued by this talk of Bible College. What college did your friend attend? Perhaps it was the same as Justin, perhaps not.

Could you wait until Justin replies before you answer? After all I asked him first (see above). Thanks in advance.

Spook,

My Father-in-Law is a priest of over 40 years. He has a college degree, two masters and was a chaplain in the Vietnam war. He saves peoples lives. Literally, by helping them to recover from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. He is a Christian in the truest sense of the word.

I introduced him to some of Justin's posts. What I got was a mixture of disgust, anger, and laughter. Pretty much the same as the rest of us then.

Ste

well, the person i know is the pastor of my church who is retiring in May, and he went to Moorlands college in Dorset, which is a brilliant Bible colege.

spook

Ste .

He sounds like a fine man. Pass him our best regards and blessings upon his vocation.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Ste,

Your Father in Law is not a Christian as the Bible defines one, but, as a 'priest', as you say, he is not to be expected to believe God anyway. He is a churchman. If he is helping people that is great, just like I do. But good works do not make you a Christian. Many merely religious folks do good works and are not the Lord's, look at the 'Dalai Lama', 'Mother' Teresa, Princess Diana, etc. I commend your Father in Law's good works,but you have to remember that it is Christians AS GOD DEFINES ONE who are the Lord's, and NOT anyone by ANY other definition.

Jesus said, "You will be hated of ALL men for my name's sake."

The very fact that you and others approve of your Father in Law is testimony to the fact that he does not know, and does not walk with, the Lord Jesus Christ. There is one acid test for you. If you approve of it, in your current state, it is not Christian as God owns. If you spend you time desperately attacking it and pouring scorn on it, as you and others do, and your Father in Law, as you say, did, then it is. Thanks for the encouragement. I was not expecting it.

I am what your Father in Law would call, derisively, a 'fundamentalist', a title which I very proud to be called by churchy persons. But I am saved, and he is not. When I die I shall go to be with Jesus whom I already know, but your Father in Law will go to join all the unsaved, religious and not..........you too, unless you repent and come to Christ. It is your Father in Law's type who were burning my people at the stake not long ago.

Spook,

Just spotted this post of yours. That is right, you do not have to hear God speak to you directly in a voice to become a Christian. He can and does speak in many ways; through the Bible, a tract, a preacher, a donkey, or whatever He chooses.

However, to become a Christian DOES NOT mean just the adoption of a set of doctrines, as the devil's servants on this site think it is, and spend their whole lives attacking, (most amusing). In order to be a Christian you have to be saved; you have to be born agian of the Spirit of God. (Jn.3) No new birth - no Heaven. A spiritual revolution has to take place in you, and you have to be delivered from the power of sin and death, or you just end up like a Catholic or Anglican (most of them),who do not KNOW the Lord Jesus personally, just have ideas about Him, and you just continue on the road to Hell, religiously.

I know Moorlands, and have visited it on one occasion.

Justin

So where did you did your degree, Justin?

>"In order to be a Christian you have to be saved; you have to be born agian of the Spirit of God."

and that is what i am, and that is exactly what I have been saying!

spook

Madent,

Via a Bible College attached to the association I belong to, and if you think I am going to put any further info up so that you can desperately use it to try and denigrate me, and by extension, the Lord Jesus whom I serve.

Just enter, for your own peace of mind, that whatever I do and say is not acceptable to you or your master and you will be happy, until you die that is. Even if I had two PhD's in theology from Oxford you would not accept what I told you, you master will not let you.

Well, OK Spook, then you know the Lord Jesus, you have been soundly born again, and you can overcome sin easily. You have heard the Lord Jesus speak to you, Spirit to spirit, and you don't have any problems do you?

Be careful what you post here. There are several avid antichrists who are like their master, pretty artful. If you are only very young in the Lord, saved for less than ten years, you will be no match for them. Satan is clever, and unless you know his tricks he will succeed in undermining your faith.

Justin

Two Oxford PhD's would certainly elevate your status in my eyes, Justin, to that of a diligent and renowned scholar. I would of course still reserve the right to disagree with you, particularly since you generally refuse to reveal the synthesis of any argument that you present and are unable to refute in even cursory detail any of the counter arguments and points raised by the rest of us.

However your non-answer is enough.

Clearly you don't have a degree from a reputable college like Oxford, else you would willingly answer.

Neither do you have a degree from a reputable Bible college that would be recognisable as such to anyone, christian and non alike.

This would appear to leave the sort of qualification that can be obtained with some cereal packets, or by answering a short multiple guess exam.

Thank you for not answering.

Ah,but Madent, the college I did mine through would not be known by non-Christians, any more than you could name me off the top of your head any Bible colleges which I would think suitable. Some Christians would know the college I did mine through, but most would not. But, there again, they could probably only name one or two of the Bible colleges in the UK anyway. Not everyone knows them all, not even Christians. And as you are utterly contemptuous of Christ and His people, or you would repent and join them, nothing they do or say, or any college they go to, would impress you anyway.

Secondly I don't use my degree except among unbelievers. The saved know that Bible colleges are not necessary to make a minister, and, by and large, they are ignored. Though many nominal Christians love it, thinking that, by knowledge from college, people can now do the works of God, which can only be done by the power of God.

Mere intellect and a college/university degree is of NO USE in the works of God, which are spiritual, and not of carnal intellect. NONE of the early brethren went to Bible college, and they were, by and large, only ordinary men, who would not have the intellect to do so. God DOES NOT use intellectuals, by and large, but ordinary folks.

"In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight."

So, Bible college degrees are useless in the real church, and I only did one for a workout, through a reputable BELIEVING college, and not, as you cynically suggest, through a worthless one, though I conceed it is not of the standard of Oxford. But there again, you will very, very, rarely find a genuine Christian who is of sufficient academic ability to go to Oxford, as God does not save such people very often. Only unbelievers called 'theologians' go to such places. But they cannot heal the sick, raise the dead, prophesy, pray in the Spirit, either. Neither do they know the Lord Jesus. They will all be joining you in Hell, except you and they repent.

I am not sure what sort of cereal packets you have in your house, but ones which require 30,000 theses after a long examination through the Bible, would be some cereal packet!

Justin - i may only have been a true christian for 5 years, but my faith is incredibly strong. i won't fall for Satan in any manner. i consider myself to be a revolusionist christian, someone who will act against Satan. i think that too many christians in this world are not prepared to fight against the evil, yet that is one of the main things about christianity. God wants us to fight the world of evil by following his teachings and his plans for us, doing as he instructs us.

spook

Justin,

No-one here hates you. We just strongly disagree with you. I also disagree with my Father-in-Law over some things. Whether I am 'attacking' your or his beliefs or not is neither here nor there.

'Your Father in Law is not a Christian as the Bible defines one'

He follows Jesus' example (as seen in the Bible) far more closely than you have done Justin, so far all you have preached is anger, hate and torment. Where in your preaching is the love, compassion and tolerance that Jesus spoke of? The terms you use to define a Christian are only used by you alone, you might as well call it 'Justianism'.

'When I die I shall go to be with Jesus whom I already know, but your Father in Law will go to join all the unsaved, religious and not..........you too, unless you repent and come to Christ.'

Justin. It comes down to this. Everything we've been talking about. I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. What you are saying is ludicrous, that you are in direct communication with Jesus Christ, who seems like a TOTALLY different Jesus than described in the bible. That a Good Man, who has dedicated his ENTIRE LIFE to serve other people, will burn in eternal torment. Maybe you should check the ID of the entity that is whispering in your ear.

The more ridiculous claptrap that comes from your mouth, the more you are derided and laughed at. This seems to reinforce your strange faith because of a misquoted LINE from the Bible. Jesus said you'll be hated by ALL men. I don't hate you Justin, and I don't know anyone here who does.

How does one 'repent and come to Christ'?

Ste