h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Attended a 'year and a day' class on wicca (except it was really only 11 months.) Pretty eclectic teachings, but taught to cast circle very formally. Left the coven because of gossip, back stabbing, one-upmanship. Practising as a solitary for almost 2 years but am having problems with such a formalized style of worship. Can't believe that the Lord or the Lady need such elaborate trappings - or is that just for protection? To prevent 'evil' being drawn to a place of power? How to simplify ritual. Do I really need the LBRP? Or to call the watchtowers? I can seeing cleansing my space, casting a protective circle, but are the 'higher magick' rituals really necessary? Need something simpler. Native American? Feel as if I am losing my spirituality, yet when I look deep within it is still there. But am not keeping rhythm with the sabbats and the full moons. I miss that. Just what the heck DID those ol' time pagans do, anyway????Meandering....

Only me again. I've just read your journal entry and found it really interesting. I've always wanted to know more about paganism (not all these weird and wonderful new age fads that have become fashionable or the pop-witchcraft that teenagers are getting involved in because of Buffy the Vampire Slayer") but the actual religion. I've found it difficult to learn about because so much of it is mixed up with other forms of spiritualism to make it marketable. That's how it appears to me anyway. Can you recommend any useful books for someone who knows very little on the subject?

My pleasure - Anything by Scott Cunningham, but particularly "Wicca: a guide for the solitary practitioner"/Edain McCoy "The Sabbats, a new approach to living the old ways"/Starhawk "The Spiral Dance."

There is a lot of rubbish out there for all the 'fluffy-bunny' pagans - the people who have read one book and instantly know that this is their 15th reincarnation as a witch or who think it is just so 'cool' to be one, so be selective in your reading. Check out Witchvox at [url removed by moderator]. A very good, informative start and about the best pagan web site on the 'net.

I get a lot of answers from paganism that I could not get from xianity - it got me through severe suicidal depression after my mother died. And like being in control of my own spirituality, not being told by someone else that this is what I should and should not do.

Any questions, please ask. And thanks.

Thanks for the info, I'll check it out. I'm interested in religions but it's difficult to find out about paganism because so many books seem to be what you term 'fluffy bunny' paganism. I get annoyed when I walk into a shop and see buddhas, native american dream catchers, feng-shui, runes and the like all lumped together as if they all belong to one 'new-age' religion. It seems as ludicrous to me as putting a crucifix, Star of David, Quran and picture of Brahma together under one label.

I would like to find out more about religious beliefs and practices in England before Christianity. It might solve one of those ancient mysteries, why Morris dancing? In all seriousness, I see all these ancient traditions and dances, and I see hooden horses and green men and wonder where they come from.

I turned away from Christianity as a result of severe depression. I found becoming an atheist solved all my worries and unanswered questions. I'm no longer worried by all those 'why?' questions or consumed by guilt.

I find paganism interesting because it is far older than most of the world religions that exist today and it puts a different emphasis on the role of women.

Thanks again for the info

Ah, morris dancing. One of the things I genuinely miss about England! Although I think it is now just a good excuse for a pub crawl. Sticks banging and bells jingling to scare away the evil spirits/dances for fertility, for crops, or just for the sheer joy of it. How more phallic can you get than a maypole?

Pick any xian holiday and paganism rears its head - easter (eostre), xmas (yule), all saints night (samhain) etc., etc. Which is why I silently snigger as a pagan in America's deep south - when all the xmas decorations go up in the office I think "Little do you know..." I, too, wish for the Tardis to zip back and see what really went on. All traditions, no matter how faithfully adhered to, must become bastardized over the years, the centuries, and their origins lost in time.

As for age, supposedly Hinduism is the only religion older than wicca/paganism. Although I imagine though those first cavemen who looked up to the moon and stars and who risked their lives to kill their game were pretty religious - what other real reason for religion than for protection, love and a reason for being here? (Though to be honest, I am still working on the latter.)

Good luck in your research. Be prepared to get lost in it. It is a never ending, branching path. Blessed be.

I went to a folk festival a few weeks ago, I could hear jingling from every pub I walked past I was thinking of joining a local Morris group but I've yet to pluck up the courage to do it.

Christian festivals make me laugh too. With the exception of the story of the nativity, everything about Christmas has pagan origins. I like the idea of wassailing. All good festivals involve alcohol There are so many themes that run through all religions, it's almost like religions evolve out of each other and then conquer another religion but keep some of the best bits. This is one of the reasons why I can't understand why people think that their beliefs are the only true beliefs. It doesn't help when the rest of my family are strict Christians either. I think they've just about agreed to disagree with me on my views.

One of the reasons a religion keeps 'bits' from the previous major religion is to help convert the masses. Christ wasn't born on Christmas, but the date was moved close to Yule to supercede it. (Both holidays celebrate the birth of the (Son) Sun.) Churches were built on pagan ground (this was recorded by the Venerable Bede.) Make a religion similar to the one in existance, add the stick to the carrot (carrot being in this case salvation, stick being the Devil and hell) and you soon have everyone converted. So to speak.

As for the Morris Dancing, GO FOR IT. Man, I would if I could. It would be hard work but think of the frustrations you could get out with all that banging and stomping. And it would be a time to get outside of yourself, lose yourself in what you are doing. Not to mention carrying on a tradition that goes back for who knows how long. And any excuse for a .... I don't know how long ago you suffered from depression, but I have been at that bottom of that particular well myself, and am only just climbing out of it. One of the hardest things is to get back into society, to relate to other people. So jump in at the deep end!!!

I got over depression a few years ago but I've never managed to get my social life back again. I used to do a lot of activities but I stopped doing them all, then became severely agoraphobic. I've managed to get over the depression and the agorahobia but although I go out occassionally with friends I have never taken up any activities again. I decided when I was at school that I would love to do Morris dancing (I used to do a lot of English Country dancing and enjoyed that), it would be a great way to keep fit and meet people as well as all the other reasons you mentioned. I have written myself a note to remind me to phone the organiser tonight. I've now got the day to pluck up the courage. Thanks for the advice.

I'm off to the library today to have a look for some of the books you recommended. Have you read any Andy Collins? I read one of his books a few years ago and liked it but I have heard criticism of him recently. What do you think?

I admit have never heard of Andy Collins - pagan books? Of course, there are so many authors out there, plus the selection over here is different from over there. But most books on this subject are the kind that you take what you want/believe from them and leave the rest. Paganism has so many different paths that you could ask two witches/pagans the same question and get two (or ten!!) different answers. But I believe whatever religion someone follows, abeit mormons, hindu, pagan, xian, whatever, that it is just a different path to the same end: enlightenment, love, protection. Which is why I am pretty tolerant of most religions (Except some of those that treat women as less than dirt - THERE I have a problem.)

And I am glad you have decided to take the step and make that phone call. I am still in the antisocial stage of depression. Last year I was on so many medications that I couldn't function (the American MD's way of treating anything is to throw more pills at it) so I just stopped taking them all. Sharp objects no longer have quite the pull they did, but I still have a hard time in social situations. I am ok with things like this, and am on the phone all day at work, sometimes with people that I have talked to for the past 7 years and know well, but cannot seem to bridge that personal gap here and make friends. I have never really adapted to the American way of thinking and most people think I am strange. No, just the usual sarcastic, irrelevant, pratchett/python loving english person that I am. And I live in the middle of the bible belt, work with a bunch of women who were born and bred in this county and will never leave it, thank you very much!! Oh well, good job I like my own company.

Damn, should put a few on there - sorry.

Good luck with the phone call. I really mean it, and actuall envy you.

It's strange, because I thought that when I had recovered from depression everything would just 'click' back into place, but it didn't. A huge chunk of my life has changed completely and that's wonderful. I am now training to be a nurse and so have no problems meeting and talking to a large number of people both in the hospital and at college but I lost a lot of friends when I was depressed and apart from a few I have known for years, I have never really made any new ones. I have been free of depression for 3 years but I still feel very anxious when placed in social situations and usually need to drink quite a lot to get rid of the anxiety.

I'm pleased you've stopped taking all the pills. I know a lot of people swear by them but I think they cause no end of trouble but don't cure the problem. I was put on various nasty cocktails of psychotropic drugs that caused side-effects like agitation that then requied further drugs. I felt like a complete zombie. I actually felt better when I stopped taking all medication completely.

From what you've written, you have some obvious causes for your depression. I think that the best way to lift some of your depression is to list the aspects of your life that really get you down and find some way of improving them. Start with small aims so you don't feel overwhelmed and a failure.

I found that coming on h2g2 has helped me a lot. It was difficult for me to talk to people on here when I first started but I have met so many people on here that I consider friends and have discovered that this helped me relate to the people on my course at college. It's also good to know that so many people here share my views, interests, sense of humour. It's nice to feel that although I spend a lot of time on my own I'm not alone because everytime I log on here I have posts waiting for me to reply to.

I went to the library today but only found one book I thought seemed interesting on their shelves. I looked up the books you suggested and they are around in the county so I'll be able to order them.

Thanks for getting my a**e in gear, you've made me realise how lucky I am. I'll be doing my deep breathing exercises this evening to calm myself down.

Excuse me for not going into the backlog here, but I wanted to answer your journal, rather than join in the converstaion you'd been having, if that makes sense.

I'm also a , and have not been doing anything that you've mentioned. I probably should, but I celebrate the Sabbats, minor and major, with my 6 year old son, do a few spells when I need to, and concentrate on my herbalism. It's enough for me. I teach my son the things I know, although as I have only been for a couple of years I generally have to pick up my reference books and revise before I do, but I enjoy it. He enjoys it too, although he gets a bit confused, cos although I've requested that he gets no RE at school, the teacher has no idea that it means NO RE!! But we'll get there. Keep going in the way that you want to, if it seems a waste of time, leave it!

Thanks. No, it isn't a waste of time, and as I said, it is still deep within me, I just want to cut off all those trappings that other seem to feel are so important. You might want to mention to your son's teacher that RE is okay, just how about some different R's!! I find most people ASSUME I am christian, which I find very irritating. Still, I get to say Happy Yule or Happy Eostre on the holidays whenever anyone says merry xmas or happy easter on the phone at work, so I throw a bit of confusion in there sometimes. Keep em confused, that's my motto.

And I am glad you have your son to share it with. When I belonged to the coven there were a lot of children present at circle and I like that. It gave me a good feeling to know that kids are being raised on the pagan path too. I wish I had found this way before my children grew up.

Blessed be.

His teacher is supposed to teach him with all the others about all the religions, when they learn about ones across the world. But he is not supposed to have any specific christian lessons. I went up to him in an assembly and pulled him out as he was singing hymns. She said it wasn't a hymn, as it was such a jolly song. It was about her God! I was not happy. She thinks he doesn't take it in, but when Lughnasdah was here and I was talking to him about the Goddess and the harvest he was trying to tell me that it was a God! So I need to have a word with her about it.
I'm going to enjoy making my own Yule cards this year, and I'm going to give him his presents on Yule, rather than on christmas day like I did last year. I'm sure he won't mind a pagan celebration with me, and a christian one with his dad. Two celebrations? Excellent.

People don't tend to assume I'm christian, as I have dreadlocks, so they always think I'm a Rasta (impossible) or a crusty!

You are lucky you can do the Yule celebration INSTEAD of xmas. My husband is catholic so we still exchange gifts, have our big meal, etc. on the 25th, but I really wish I could do it on Yule instead. But it isn't something I would push. It took a while for him to accept that I was pagan and I am not going to rub his face in it. And I figure, what the hey, I still enjoy the buying and wrapping of gifts, for whatever reason.

As for the assumation of religion, you need to buy the tee shirt that I wear all the time - it says "I haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister." I get so many comments about it and either everyone gets it, or I have fun explaining it.

And as for your son and his RE, complain to the headmaster. Threaten to go further. The only bad thing is that at any age it is not good to be 'different' if you see what I mean, so make sure it is the teacher who gets punished, and not your son by either the teacher or by teasing from the other kids. It's a sad thing when you still have that fine line to walk, making your point and hoping your kid doesn't suffer the consequences.

I'm having a meeting with the teacher today, so we should be able to sort it out. I do worry about him, as I don't want him thinking he has done anything wrong. Luckily there are a couple of JWs at the school too, although they might have moved to the juniors, as they were a year above him, and they used to do things together while everyone else was busy in assembly.
It does annoy me, as it I'd wanted him to have a christian education I would have sent him to a church school, why should I have to put up with it?
I'll take your advice though, just in case she doesn't listen. She did say I could go in and talk to the class about my religion if I liked, but I knew I wouldn't be allowed. I told her no, as I was a , and she said no herself! Ah well, J is happy with bonfires and stories about kings and gods fighting over the seasons, so I'll stick to my principles.

You'll have to explain the t shirt to me I think. I must be a bit dense this morning...

The wizard of oz...where the house fell on the wicked witch.... 'house fell on my sister'.... hm, maybe it is just me...

Good luck with the teacher, really. Actually, a talk on paganism in general might not be a bad idea if you study up on it first. How xians took over the pagan sites/holidays/gods&goddesses/etc., etc. Maybe you might plant a few seeds that will sprout many years in the future. Most people are shut up in their boxes without even realizing that they have walls around their thinking. My ex-coven was a teaching coven so we learned a lot on the history, plus I have found some stuff online from mediaeval times on the xianization (??) of england. Very enlightening. Let me know how it goes. Will be rooting for you, especially with Samhain and Yule on the horizon.

The talk went well, she's going to carry on keeping J out of the assemblies once a week when they are very religious, and she says she'll emphasise more in the general RE lessons that there are lots of different religions and that this is one that *some* people believe in. That way, if he argues again, I can remind him of that, and tell him that this is what I believe, and want to teach him.
It's worth trying for a while. He's got his harvest festival at school in October, that's going to be hard for me, as that's a big thanksgiving for xians. I'm thinking of talking to her nearer the day, and keeping him home for that. But I'm not sure. We've already had ours, and I worry that if I don't let him go then I'm putting him behind the walls you speak of. Maybe I need to find a teaching coven as well, to help me. I get a lot of support from a RL friend that gives me good advice, but as he hasn't got kids, he can only help so much.

Maybe I'll suggest to her that I could do a talk on paganism in general, and not use words like 'witch' etc. And see what she says. But not this term, I'd be too nervous.

And yes, I get your t shirt now! I hadn't thought of that one, it sounds good.

Harvest Festival - there you go, a perfect opportunity for a talk. How we will have already celebrated our version, Mabon, and are looking forward to Samhain, our new year. What they both stand for, how they are celebrated. I think it would be fun - think of the history you could teach, the questions you could answer. And if you don't know the answer, just say so! Clear it with the headmaster/mistress first. Don't want to offend anyone (tho' it doesn't seem to matter if they offend US!) If you need a good reference book, there's one I use all the time - 'The Sabbats, A New Approach To Living the Old Ways' by Edain McCoy. Not only does it give the whys and wherefores of the sabbats, but some good ways to celebrate, from cooking to decorations, mask making, & rituals. There's a lot that you could do in there with your son anyway. You might want to check it out.

Hello again fyrelizard. Sorry to interupt but I wanted to thank you for getting my a**e in gear and let you know that I plucked up the courage to make the phone call and I am going to my first Morris practice on Tuesday evening I'll think of you

hey, no interruption - I am sooooo glad . I was thinking of you yesterday but am still not sure how to navigate on this site and didn't know how to find out what you were up to. I hope you have fun. It's so . I HAVE to know any deep, dark secrets you learn (as in the secret handshakes, bell-jangling code, etc. ) Let me know how it goes. Will be thinking of you too!