h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Frogbit: thanks for responding to that thing in "ask". I'm responding here so as to keep that thread on topic, but I did want to answer specifically a couple of things you said there.

Firstly, you closed with "If this appears to be off-topic, then..."

Not at all - you gave the answer to the question which was asked and some thoughtful comment based on the issue. That was EXACTLY what I was hoping for.

"Was I aware of his presence before Hoo started crowing it from the rooftops? No."

Does it matter that you are now? Do you care, one way or the other? Isn't the fact that you weren't aware of him part of the point of the question? Just a couple of thoughts...

"Hoo, one of the finest aspects of H2G2 is room it provides in which people can grow."

I agree. And that applies to me as much as it does to Justin. I know nobody like him IRL. This is not, I think, a bad thing. But the opportunity to interact with him here is, I think, enormously valuable and educational. I was, I think, peripherally aware that people like that existed. But it's kind of a revelation when you actually try to *talk* to one. It quite literally widens the boundaries of how I thought a human mind could work. I'm not exaggerating...

"By rubbing shoulders with people of unlike mind, Justin may, or may not, reconsider his opinions, or at least become more moderate if he learns that his methods do not work."

We'll see... but I doubt it. I've been wrong many times before, however. I hope I am this time.

"If he is continually held up and, dare I say it, persecuted for his opinions then he might imagine he has more in common with certain other popular martyrs."

Absolutely. And I'm convinced he seeks out persecution for that very reason, and where he doesn't find it, he tries to provoke it. And I think one of the things he's finding frustrating with this place is that it is NOT providing the persecution and hatred he is used to. Oh sure, he's on premoderation - but he's actually on record as finding that to be a *benefit*. Contrast this with his prior existence on the BBC's Christian messageboards, from where he was acrimoniously banned, apparently. H2G2 is proving to be tolerant and accepting of him.

And unarguably demonstrating that to him is pretty much the whole point of this poll. He actively wants to be hated, and I want to show him that he's come to the wrong place. Isn't that just the sort of "rubbing shoulders with unlike minds" you're talking about?

"If, however, he is ignored, it might dawn on him that he is pissing in the wind here."

I disagree. He's USED to being ignored, as much if not more than he's used to being despised. Have you ever seen the Bible-thumping preachers on the street? Being ignored is their JOB, it seems. Ignoring him will change nothing.

No, he expects to be persecuted or ignored. What he does NOT expect, and what he's getting on h2g2 from people like Matholwch and Jordan and others, is compassionate, considerate conversation from people who see past his desperate facade of dogma. If anything is going to shake his worldview and cause him to question things, it's people doing the unexpected - and thankfully there are always people on this site who can be counted on to do that!

"Personally, although I object to the content of his US and postings, I think we need people like Justin to remind us what we *do* believe in."

Absolutely. And one of the things I believe in is freedom of speech, even for people whose views I find ridiculous or repugnant (Justin has some rather "interesting" views on women, gays and Catholics, as you might expect). Freedom of speech (with limitations of law for national security, child protection etc) is not something you can have piecemeal. Everyone gets it, or it doesn't exist. The case of people like Justin is a good reminder of that in a cosy little liberal community like H2G2...

In conclusion - I'm sorry if by drawing your attention to Justin I've upset you. He is, however, very easily ignored if you choose to. As are we all... But I thank you for the time and the thought you put into your answer.

H.

Hey Hoo. Thanks for the personal touch.

"Was I aware of his presence before Hoo started crowing it from the rooftops? No."

I could have easily neutralised this sentence by sticking a winkeye on the end, but deliberately didn't. At the time I was pissed of with you for drawing attention to this character who otherwise seemed to be keeping a low profile.
I was wrong. I shouldn't have tried to suggest you were making a fuss over nothing. My interest in H2G2 was faltering - there are a few big egos about, and some idiots I couldn't be bothered arguing with. However, your thread on Justin's acceptability has changed my mind - there are still an awful lot of good people here - thanks a lot for bringing it to my attention.

Best wishes,

Frogbit.