h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Geagte Willem,

Moenie worry nie. !1

Just let's start again, gently discussing things and letting each one have a say. that is the best way.

With affection.

Christiane.

OK AR80! At any rate, I want to write a bit more about depression for my next 'essay'. Don't know when that will be though!

Willem, I am still here and finding your thoughts interesting and thought provoking. I just don't have the time to write much at the moment.

I will catch up soon I promise. Glad you and AlsoSwam80 are reconciled. Life is too short to take umbrage, but we all do when tired. Methinks our friend has been watching the Olympics and getting tired. She is not usually 'tetchy'

Websailor

Hi folks! Haven't forgotten this but I have been rather depressed myself these past days, and haven't had much energy for writing and thinking about depression as well!

At any rate: I agree Websailor, life's too short to take umbrage... for me it has always been difficult to know how I 'come across' over the internet! You're not speaking with me face to face ... but really, if you were speaking face to face you'd see I am not easily offended, I don't easily get angry, I am friendly, I speak in a gentle tone of voice most of the time, except when I am getting positively excited about something. I am very enthusiastic where certain 'topics' are concerned, but it's a positive enthusiasm. I can occasionally 'overwhelm' people when I have so much to say the information just seems to burst out of me and they don't get much chance to get a word in edgewise! I try not to do this but I still catch myself doing it from time to time.

Well, over here on h2g2 you *can* get words in edgewise! Nothing prevents you from posting in between postings of mine, and saying as much as you want to say, in each posting. I promise to do my best to read and pay attention to anything others say here.

The thing is ... I don't want to sound like I know everything and try to impress people with all the stuff that I know. It's not about impressing people. It's just that, where certain topics are concerned, I do have a lot of knowledge ... what I consider to be knowledge, being fairly sure of myself. I don't easily rate knowledge as such. There's a difference between thinking you know something, and really knowing it. Many people (and I don't mean any of you ... I'm talking in general here, and this applies to myself as well) think they 'know' things but they are wrong. They've read a certain thing in a certain book and they believe it, it sounded convincing to them, and they will repeat it with a fair degree of confidence, but as it happens, this info is wrong ... the person who wrote it in the book made a mistake, and the mistake wasn't caught out by the editors but ended up in print. Well I won't deny that I am confident about certain things I read in books ... when I read for instance Paris is the capital of France, in an encyclopedia, I believe that. But I have fairly strong standards for what I regard as 'knowledge'. I will not believe everything I read in books. I've read a lot of nonsense and sometimes believed it, only to find out later that it was complete nonsense. I think by now I've developed the ability to differentiate outright nonsense from fairly reliable evidence ... at least I don't believe things as easily as I did in my naïve youth.

Of course I cannot differentiate all nonsense from fact. Nobody can. One would have to know everything from the outset, which nobody does. But generally ... certain 'sources' are more reliable, and certain kinds of knowledge are also more firmly based than others. Stuff you read in a 'self-help' book is generally not as solidly reliable as something you read in an encyclopedia. Even so ... even encyclopedias contain errors. But once you've read a number of different encyclopedia entries about a certain topic, you have a basis for catching out such errors. You're still not on 100% solid ground though.

To further improve your ability to establish the reliability of knowledge, you need philosophy. In my own case I've investigated the philosophy of science, so as to help me understand the sorts of scientific claims I read about. I've also studied science itself. This is a huge topic and I'd like to do proper justice to it, which would need a number of essays.

Back to what I wanted to say ... I have what I think constitutes knowledge about certain topics, and I simply want to share this knowledge. Not impress people with it. Everything I learn that I find fascinating, feels like it enriches me and fills me with wonder and it is simply that feeling that I wish to share! AND ALSO: much knowledge is of direct practical value ... you can actually do something with it. If I teach someone about a tree or a bird and that person can from then on identify that kind of tree or bird, it has made a practical difference. Or if I tell people how to take care of a plant, and that person successfully takes care of the plant, there has been a practical 'result' from the information.

When it comes to the topic under discussion ... mental health ... I have a fair degree of actual knowledge. There are things I've experienced in my own life. There are things that have been experienced by friends and acquaintances, that they have told me, and that we have discussed among ourselves. There are things I've read in books. This has not been mere 'book learning' since everything I read I have tried to relate to something practical in my own life or those of others. The books have given me not just information but also tools for understanding practical realities, tools for applying to those realities to deal with them, to change them.

Now this is what I want to share in these writings. There is information, yes ... what I say here, I would not say unless I was fairly sure of myself ... even so, nothing I say here should be taken as 100% reliable truth. But even short of 100% reliable, it might be helpful. Then there are ideas ... ideas that occur to me, and these ideas might not come in the category of 'true' or 'false' but might merely be a concept one can try to apply to something, to gain some understanding. A concept one can use for forming a conceptual framework of one's own. The concept might apply to some situations or objects but not to others.

Concepts can be used as tools for understanding real or hypothetical situations.

The words applied to concepts aren't always that important. Remember, I speak three languages, and different words are used for the same concepts in each. I've also found that there are concepts for which some languages don't have clear words. In my own case I've always thought with concepts more than with words so this hasn't hampered me much in my private ponderings ... but I know other people might have difficulties. This has hindered me a lot, in my communication with others. I try to go by dictionary definitions of words and trying to work with concepts that stay close to such 'official' definitions, even while understanding that language is not a rigid thing with meanings that can be 'caged' and held there ... the normal flow and evolution of language may mean that something I say today and understood by people of my own time, might have implications or overtones or meanings entirely different, some decades from today.

Now this is something I understand well and it is maybe the reason why I am so 'wordy'. I try and explain the same thing several different times in several different ways because some 'explanations' may later not mean the same thing as they mean today, but if there are many different explanations or descriptions or whatever, then at least some of them might still be accurate years from now.

Or in the same way ... some people may have different understandings of the same explanations of mine ... so if I explain something several different ways, I have a better chance of making myself intelligible to many different people with different perspectives. I'm speaking from South Africa and my background is firmly rooted in the history and culture of the Afrikaans people, but I'm speaking to people in Britain, the USA, Japan, and potentially every other country in the world. Words may mean roughly the same to different people, but would have different associations etc. to different people and some people might have a 'negative' reaction to a word that others experience positively.

So: in the end I just want to ask ... please bear with me! Something that I say that makes you frown today, may be all cleared up later when I explain it somewhat differently. As far as I am concerned, the burden is on me to explain myself clearly, to make myself intelligible. The burden is also on me to make sure that everything I present here as 'fact' is indeed fairly relable, and the burden is also on me to make sure that my reasoning is logically sound. By all means ask if you are unsure of something I tried to explain. By all means challenge me when you think I've made an error of fact or an error of reasoning. But also allow me to defend myself, or at least, to defend my words, against such charges. This is all part of discussion. But please, keep the lines of communication open! Communication is the one thing we have going for us here.

Willem, you have excellent communication skills, certainly in English, and I find your writing fascinating. I just have too little time at the moment to take it all in. What is your third language by the way? English, Afrikaans and ...?

I am sorry the 'Black Dog' has been visiting you lately. Is there a reason for the depression or is it one of those that just 'happens'?

All the things you tell us are in effect 'sowing seeds' and as you will know some flourish and some fall on stoney ground. I think the reason I like h2g2 is because there are so many different people from different countries and backgrounds, all of which colour their views and perceptions.

I think I am quite capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff in what I read, see and hear and if I am in doubt I do as I suggest in my columns - take it with a pinch of salt! Time and experience often shows whether something is fact or fiction, somewhere in between or a genuinely held belief.

I have noticed your intensity when something matters to you. I used to be so like that, but I think it has dulled with age!!

Take care, and I hope you can give the Black Dog it's marching orders soon,

I must as my other half has just come in and requires food

Websailor

Hi Websailor! The third language is German ... I'm fairly competent with it: reading, speaking, writing. I used to be good with French as well but through neglect it's become a bit rusty!

I'm a bit depressed for a variety of reasons!

In my own case I find sorting wheat from the chaff is not always easy or straightforward! Especially where certain areas such as conspiracy theories or parascience is concerned, as well as some of the 'woollier' realms of philosophy. Or basically on the fringes of scientific beliefs, or any sort of 'frontier' knowledge - in all cases areas I've tried to investigate intensively. There are 'mainstream' views and then there are the 'fringe' views. Now for a large variety of reasons I do not put complete trust in 'mainstream' knowledge and I have good evidence that there are things going on that the 'mainstream' can't or won't even dream about ... but the jury's still out as to just what is going on there ...

Anyways as far as being depressed, I'll just ride this out!

See you elsewhere on h2h2. I'll soon post an essay on depression ... feeling almost up to tackling it!

No rush. It can't be easy writing about it, especially if it is affecting you at the time.

Websailor

OK I feel up to writing a bit more about depression. In the previous posting I talked about the difference between the ordinary 'mood' of depression ... feeling low, or sad, or lacking energy, enthusiasm and hope ... which pretty much everybody experiences from time to time and is not necessarily a problem ... and the illness called clinical depression, which is when this depressive state becomes severe or prolonged, and other symptoms may develop as well.

Clinical depression must be treated by mental health professionals. Nothing I say here should be seen as constituting 'treatment'. All I'm offering are ideas for better understanding aspects of depression ... whether in a state of clinical depression or just a 'regular' depressed mood lasting for a day or few.

I did as a warning note in my last posting that I myself have a kind of 'background depression' that is almost constantly with me, and that can flare up into a severe episode quickly and without warning. But the 'background depression' itself is low-intensity, and bearable. The depression I've been feeling for the last days has been a bit of this kind of flare-up but, still, bearable. I monitor myself very closely ... if things become very bad I will go for treatment.

I advise anyone reading here to also monitor themselves closely if they're prone to depression, and not to take chances.

OK but now, having said that, I want to talk about some *positive* aspects of depression! Some of this comes from the WikiPedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(mood)

The article notes that depression can be seen as a mechanism of adaptation. When we *feel* depressed, it may be a sign that the body and mind need some rest! When a person behaves in a depressed manner, it may also be a sign to others to treat that person with kindness and to offer various kinds of support.

I see depression as an inevitable outcome - well, from times to times - of 'fighting the good fight'. I mean, working for worthwhile causes. For me, such causes constitute a major part of the meaning of my life: working to try and improve circumstances for others. There's my work with plants and trying, in my limited sort of way, to raise environmental awareness. There's my work trying to understand mental health issues better, and raising mental health awareness - this very thread that I'm writing here! There's also my work trying to learn about and understand human society, and my concern over the various ills of our world. For me, these 'causes' are very important ... again it all ties into my holist philosophy: the health of the part and the health of the whole are interrelated. My own wellbeing is totally tied up with the wellbeing of others. No man is an island. I'm trying to improve things for myself, and for others as well at the same time.

I think every person should have a 'cause' bigger than just his or her own self. Striving for such a cause can give life meaning. This is what I mean when I say 'fighting the good fight': working for a cause that is just and righteous. It is worth expending a lot of energy - mental, physical, psychological - for such a cause. And this, inevitably, will on occasion become 'too much'. Too much energy spent ... too much trouble and toil ... too much frustration ... will wear down the body and mind. That is when a depressed mood sets in. It is a defense mechanism! Your mind forces you to back down. You lose motivation ... for a while. You feel down, lack energy ... feel listless and without hope ... these are signs! This is your mind and body telling you you need a rest ... and a break from worrying about the rest of the world! Not for always ... just for a while. Just for long enough to re-charge the batteries.

This is all a part of normal mental health! A short period of depression like this can be cured by rest, and distracting activities. But when the mood has lifted ... it's time to get back to work!

'Fighting the good fight' will for most people entail *trying* to do the impossible. There are so many wrongs in the world that there is always too much work to do for the people trying to right them. This entails very hard and wearying work. Striving for the impossible can take its toll. The depression can then become a real problem. In dedicating one's life to causes, and with a high degree of idealism, being confronted with ugly realities can be traumatic. In nature conservation, it is awful to have to contemplate the degree of environmental damage and degradation humanity has already inflicted on the planet. In working for the betterment of society, it can be horrifying to learn about the horrible conditions that so many people live in, and the awful suffering people inflict on each other. In any cause, it can engender despair, to work for something one believes in and cares for passionately, against a huge wave of public indifference or sometimes even hostility. So ... a mood of depression can set in and become problematic. This is a real danger ... and everyone involved in 'causes' should be attentive to it. Even if you feel what you're doing is too little ... you're still making a difference. And when you give up hope *entirely*... or become so despondent that you commit suicide ... you are removing this difference, this little bit of difference that you're making, that may be a little, but actually is a lot ... you're removing this little bit of difference, you're leaving the world a little bit worse off. But if you get your depression treated ... and get well again ... you can continue making your difference and maybe it will be that *crucial* difference that the world needs!

I think you must let yourself be depressed a bit from time to time and also learn to endure this as simply a normal part of mental health. One cannot be happy all the time; periods of being a bit down, followed by periods of being up again ... these are cycles, and 'health' means a balance between 'ups' and 'downs'. Only when these cycles get extreme do they constitute a problem. Being too 'up' can be as bad as being too 'down'!

Being able to tolerate unpleasant mental experiences is in my view as important a part of mental health, as being able to tolerate unpleasant physical experiences, is a part of physical health. I believe one can teach one's self to endure depressed moods and ride them out ... and also, to function better even while being depressed. But this must not come at the cost of ignoring serious depression.

Then there's another angle also mentioned in the WikiPedia article: depression actually engenders compassion!

Depression can go hand in hand with compassion. A big reason why I am often depressed, is because of feeling compassion with the suffering of others. People close to me and people far from me; also animals and Nature as a whole. When I hear of something terrible that has happened to someone, I feel bad ... I feel with that person, or with the loved ones of that person. When I think about what humans do to animals and to Nature, I feel bad, because of being compassionate and not wanting these bad things to happen. Being compassionate means that one WILL feel the pain, the sadness, the grief, the loss, the fear of others. This can become overwhelming, but one can also learn how to bear this ... also, how to limit the effect of this. One can learn to cut compassion off at a certain point beyond which it would be too painful to bear.

Then there's also the factor that depression can make one more compassionate. Feeling down, experiencing negative thoughts and emotions, gives one an understanding of the suffering of others, that one would not have had if one had not experienced suffering oneself.

Then there's the social factor. I'm talking much about the larger society here ... in societies, where people are properly connected to other people, a person displaying signs of depression will be attended to by other people. This person may appreciate the attention of others, or alternatively ask to be left alone ... but in both cases, people are having sympathy with, and being attentive to, each other's needs.

More to come ... when people are depressed about their own circumstances being very bad ... just how bad can circumstances be, and how does one deal with extremely bad circumstances?