h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hello Grief.

Please see my personal space at any time over the next 24 hours for info which may or may not be of interest. Let me know if you've got it...

H

Yes Hooloovoo, I got it, and yes, it is of interest. Very interesting indeed.

Now I just want to know one thing - why, in the first place, did you try and antagonise me and discredit LeKZ? Why did you not get to know me first, instead? The way you acted you set me up against you, and only later when I had a chance to get to know you did I see that I misjudged you to begin with. And I think you misjudged me to begin with, too.

Agreed.

I did my best at the tim to find out as much as I could. What I found out, initially, prejudiced me against LeKZ, rightly or wrongly. It is probable that the background reading I did (here and at her site) was not enough. It's probable no amount of background reading would have been enough. I was prevented by her expulsion from asking her anything directly at that time, and remained so due to my unwillingness to shed anonymity. I hope that the reason for that unwillingness is now clear and understood to be in some small way justified. Because of it, I can clearly state without fear of contradiction that no pressure has been applied to me by anyone to get anything done - posts removed etc - because absolutely nobody on this site except the italics knows anything about me that could identify me. That was an advantage in the correspondence with Peta, since she appeared to believe I *was* under pressure.

Having formed a negative view, the reactions of LeKZ's friends vexed me. ( I did not have enough context there, no doubt at all). Conversations with them vexed me further. To find out my responses were being dissected elsewhere without my knowledge, and to have people make reference to stuff I didn't know about "because I wasn't there" really got to me, for personal reasons explained elsewhere.

However, the more I discovered, the more I read, the more the actions of the italics disturbed me. Sure, LeKZ is abrasive. Rude, on occasions. (Rude, in this context, means "honest, when most people would lie to protect feelings"). Wildly intelligent, obviously. Complex, without doubt. All of these things should be no barrier to membership here. I read the post, read the "translation", and considered pattern recognition and prejudice, and decided that unlike other researchers, I couldn't attack the problem of the XXX post. I'd already read too much, hence the other guy (who I really must ask to hurry up next time I speak to him). But things started happening. Personal spaces disappeared. Links to FoLKZ, links that I had specifically asked for to enable me to read postings about me without sacrificing that anonymity thing, not only disappeared but were declared unacceptable. Links even to Tapioca were declared unsuitable. I'd already made references to "The Prisoner", and about that time I started signing things "It used to be Digital, now it's just "The Village"". Ho, ho, Hoovooloo, very clever.

I was accused of many things. I think I've answered most. I think I've repaired about as much of the damage as I'm going to be allowed to by those here.

I planned, having sent the reply back to Peta, on publishing the full correspondence on my personal space. I leave to your imagination what I thought of Mark's attempt to convince people that "confidential" meant I couldn't do that. Of course, it would have been possible for him to add that to the rules, and take down my personal space for breach of confidence. In such a case, not only would it have made the italics look extremely shifty, but I would have been forced to sacrifice my anonymity and post that text to FoLKZ one way or the other. I have to admit that I am pleasantly surprised that it hasn't come to that. I'm even more surprised that it takes an *engineer* to point out that H2G2's legal advisers from last year (who were presumably qualified solicitors) were talking a load of dingo's kidneys. I'd be interested to know which firm of solicitors it was, so I can avoid using them...

In summary, Grief - I reacted. Badly. I continued to do so for some time. The depressing thing is, I didn't even have anything much to react against. The initial conversations at FoLKZ were bad reactions, emotional, etc., and the place has calmed down a lot since. But the people there (one in particular) HAD A REASON. I just started reading, got annoyed with something I read and started typing. I haven't been online at home long, and it's easy to forget that there are *people* on the other end of this thing, not some sort of intelligent entertainment machine (you are people, aren't you, Grief? ).

I misjudged you, LeKZ, and several others. I hope I've managed to sort out everything I can now.

Someone asked me if I thought the Lifetime Suspension thread would ever sort itself out. I'm an optimist, I said. I think so. I said that I thought that it may, possibly, be the catalyst for the process of leaving behind H2G2's days as a freewheeling dotcom, and moving into a new age as a professionally managed and run public service site. I also said that *if* the expulsion of one researcher catalyses that, then it may be a legacy they could be proud of, if not actually happy about or satisfied with.

On that hopeful note,

H.

Well, err, you know Hoovooloo, it's a bit hard to be very optimistic when it's your own self that has been butchered so as to be a catalyst for the development of h2g2 from a freewheeling dotcom to a professionally managed public service site. Human sacrifices make me a bit uncomfortable, you know. Like I told somebody else: hurt is hurt, irrespective of which sphere of society it occurs in, or whether it happens on a small scale or a large. There are indeed people on the other end of the lines. I cannot talk for others but I myself have been spending late nights, sleepless nights, have been exchanging hundreds of thousands of words over private emails, have been having nightmares, in broad daylight and while wide awake, and much much more, on an ongoing basis, for *months*. I have by now an accumulation of info that you would not believe ... and the vast majority of it is confidential. I have 'inside information' from all sides, and I cannot share one iota of it with anybody. What happened and is happening here was and is extremely ugly to myself and has contributed to driving me into a case of potentially terminal alienation from my fellow human beings in general.

By the way - would you mind if I told Barton what used to appear on your userspace? He missed it but he's interested, and you yourself did not mind making it public there, then.

I understand why you did what you did ... I think I even understand why everybody involved here did what they did ... but understanding does not change history and neither does it make the after-effects go away. IMHO one of the problems is that the bosses of this place do not actually realise what is going on here, they don't know the people that constitute the community, they are unaware of the depth of many of the issues over here.

Two quick points, and then I really must leave this... (how long have I been saying that?)

1. I put the info on my space so that I could take it down again quickly. This was to cause minimum unnecessary embarrassment. I told exactly two people it was there (you and 7rob7, I think). The specific intention was that one or both of you would copy it, and show it to anyone you think would be interested, and I would then take it down before every Tom, Dick and Harriet saw it. Please note: I would NOT wish this information to be "published". Of course, it is my private information, and having put it in the public domain, even for a limited time, I can no longer prevent anyone who has a copy from putting it anywhere they choose. However, I believe I can trust you to share it discreetly with those with an interest in this subject, rather than disseminating it widely. Thank you.

2. I think the phrase "human sacrifice" is a bit strong. A person joined a website, contributed an enormous amount of good stuff (and some weird stuff), and was then prevented from contributing any more to that single website. If you want to rail against injustices there are probably about a billion people being harder done to even as I type this. Don't get me wrong, I think LeKZ's expulsion was unjustified, and has important implications for the way this playground is run. But in perspective, I think characterising it as human sacrifice is a bit much. Talk to Amnesty International if you want some real nightmares. Better still, just give them some cash (I have) and they might be able to stop some seriously terrible things happening.

Hoping the nightmares go away...

H

Thanks for that. It is as I expected, but you did not state so clearly enough. I will not 'publish' the info, don't worry.

I am quite aware of the injustices being done to billions of people - I live in Africa, remember? I am also aware of other problems around the world. But I cannot do anything about those. I have no cash and no power. I can only help people individually. What else can I do?

Possibly the last message... I've said elsewhere that you should lurk, but, in reply to the above and in reply to implied other issues...

What can you do? Whatever you feel you must, obviously. What is the best for you, perhaps less obviously.

I have two things for you.

Whether you go or stay, this will not go away. Others are working at it in various ways. You are a valuable addition to that because you work in a different way. But there are and will be others, be assured.

If you do go, be assured also that you will be missed. Others will tell you this, but I wanted to as well. We've disagreed, wildly. But...

If go you do
Remember Hoovooloo.
Hoovooloo will remember you.

H.

Hi. Good to see you're lurking

Yes, I am reading You've asked, I'll answer. Well, I suppose you're right. In the context of an information-free thread, posting something supposedly information free does make sense. I still think (and I think LeKZ agrees...) that *in retrospect*, checking that it was truly information free would have been wise.

Well, that's it. I hope you feel ready to return soon.

H.

Hello. Just to let you know - the two weeks are over and I'm back, but still not at all happy. I don't know how active I'm going to be ... I'll see what I'll do.

Thanks for turning out nicer than you seemed at first.

Your welcome, and your welcome back.

Go here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A623288

for what I've been thinking about today...

H.

I saw. I answered too ... did you see? LeKZ have been talking about that ... they think a period longer than a week might be necessary, and I rather agree.

I agree it might be necessary, but I concerned with what can be achieved. If you make a ban "pending" for a month, the italics can then legitimately turn around and say "so much stuff has been posted on this that we haven't time to read it all, so we're not going to". By limiting it to a week, you do limit the right of reply, but at the same time drastically increase the chance of the reply being heard. I think that's a price worth paying.

As I've said, I must emphasise I'm not trying for a perfect solution. I'm trying for something so reasonable and easy to do that the italics can't ignore it. Something which everyone can say "This doesn't limit your power, it reduces your workload, it makes you look better, SO WHY AREN'T YOU DOING IT?". So far, I think I'm doing OK. Refinements suggested have been few and minor. If it can get implemented, we can debate the finer points of how it works later. Let's get something *done*.

Glad to see you back.
H.

I was thinking of a two week period ... a month is too long, but a week seems to me to be too short. Note, this may be because I took two weeks off now and to me it seems to have been the perfect length of time for getting my wits in order! I'm also basing this on the general speed at which threads move over here... in practice it will vary from person to person.

But yeah, overall, it's a very good idea and it needn't be perfect just yet ... no reason why it can't be fine-tuned as things go along.

Hello again. I haven't been in touch for a while for a couple of reasons - one, recents world events and two, another completely unexpected sequence of events which have taken up rather a lot of my time. But I'm still consuming tapioca, and I just thought I'd drop by and say I was extremely amused by the cartoons, and I'm encouraged that we can still find humour even in the bleakest of events.

I especially liked "put your nose here" - I should have been able to predict the effect, but it still came as a surprise - love it!

Still not giving up? Good.

H.
PS Did also read about your father. Don't know what to say other than to express horror and empathy for him, your mother and you.

Hey Hoovooloo! You know, I am quite happy to hear that you still read and that you enjoyed the cartoons! I kinda feel a bit alone over there at the moment.

I've also been heavily absorbed by the latest world events, and as you know, some events in 'real life' down here as well. Thanks for your empathy.

Over on Topica I'm from now on definitely going to put more links to cartoons. You once mentioned 'Dilbert' - LeKZ sent me a cartoon a bit after that, and I've looked at some more, and they're great also!

It does seem to have gone a bit quiet over there, doesn't it? Various reasons, I think...

I'm glad you liked Dilbert. It would be no exaggeration to say that in my last job, I *was* Dilbert - complete with pointy-haired-boss! (although this is not to say that I look like him! ) I could tell you stories... they seem funny in retrospect but at the time they were just unbelievable. Luckily I and all the people I worked with there have now left and in every single case got better jobs with bosses who have a clue. So there are some happy endings...

Keep in touch...

H.

Willem,

It's 18 hours later, and I've only just read this. I didn't know it was going on, or I'd have been here too.

I have no idea when it is that you're reading this, but it doesn't really matter, because this message isn't time dependent.

You went away from H2G2 for a while, and when you did I said "if you don't come back, remember me, because I'll remember yoo, too".

Still applies. Hope to see you back soon. I'm going to post this message in two places: the journal conversation, and our conversation thread on your "Grief" space. Be back - that's an instruction. Be back, be here, be you and keep being you and don't for anything stop.

That's all.

H.

Hey Kirsti! I am *so* happy to hear from you! I can't say much now ... only thank you very much! If possible, email again please. I'll write at length soon!

Willem

Willem (in Bin) says Hi, again

(Sorry about the previous reply, I have pasted the wrong file and realized it to late. Peet van der Merwe - Willem's father)

> It's 18 hours later, and I've only just read this. I didn't know it was
> going on, or I'd have been here too.
>
Willem: Thanks H. The guys who were there all helped a lot .. as did what
Higher Power slowed the servers down so that I couldn't send all my parting
messages to my h2g2 friends before my parents arrived. I was really far gone ...there were at least ten occasions on which I almost squeezed the trigger. I
don't want to leave or single anyone out .. everybody helped to hinder me. It's
good to know yoo woold have too.

Without detracting from the efforts of anyone else: when Lekz's kidz came out
and the others refused to bolck them (and they refused to be blocked) it
became impossible for me to go through with it. Also when my parents came
into the study. Up till I finally "gave up " I was trying to get Lekz to block the
kidz, and my parents to leave, so I could do it.
>
> I have no idea when it is that you're reading this, but it doesn't really
> matter, because this message isn't time dependent. Saturday, 29 September.
>
> You went away from H2G2 for a while, and when you did I said "if you don't
> come back, remember me, because I'll remember yoo, too".
>
Willem: Sure I'll remember yoo. I remember well ... they're making me do a lot of remembering here, We're pretty much away from everything here. I haven't seen a single newspaper this past week. But the people make up for it! Some of the most interesting and pleasant folks I've been around in a long while. Like the people outside, we all have lots of problems, but unlike them, we're admitting it and trying to do something about it, ha, ha! You should see the cat they have here ... it's totally crazy! It jumps at people from the shrubbery, bounces off them, and then runs away aguin!

> Still applies. Hope to see you back soon. I'm going to post this message in
> two places: the journal conversation, and our conversation thread on your
> "Grief" space. Be back - that's an instruction. Be back, be here, be you and
> keep being you and don't for anything stop.

My computer is for all intents and purposes my dad's and he stil ldon't know where exactly to go, but I'm with him now and will wxplain to him how to send you this message on you userspace.

When i'll be back will depend on the docs here, and my persuasive powers. Yoo can imagine from what yoo know, it might take a while ... there are several prejudices I'm going to be going up against. Currently my best hope is to try and gain access to the internet from here within uthousenay. Might also take a while.
>
> That's all.
>
> H.

That's enough.

Willem

Willem (in Bin) says Hi, again

(Sorry about the previous reply, I have pasted the wrong file and realized it to late. Peet van der Merwe - Willem's father)

[Peet, you're doing great. It's no problem. Thanks for passing this on.]

> It's 18 hours later, and I've only just read this. I didn't know it was going on, or I'd have been here too.

>Willem: Thanks H. The guys who were there all helped a lot .. as did what Higher Power slowed the servers down so that I couldn't send all my parting messages to my h2g2 friends before my parents arrived. I was really far gone ...there were at least ten occasions on which I almost squeezed the trigger. I don't want to leave or single anyone out .. everybody helped to hinder me. It's good to know yoo woold have too.

[Anything I could have done. Long rambling explanations of stuff about Lifetime Suspension, posted one... word... at... a... time...?]

Without detracting from the efforts of anyone else: when Lekz's kidz came out and the others refused to bolck them (and they refused to be blocked) it became impossible for me to go through with it. Also when my parents came into the study. Up till I finally "gave up " I was trying to get Lekz to block the kidz, and my parents to leave, so I could do it.

[I'm glad you failed. I'm glad LeKZ was there. Everyone is.]

Willem: Sure I'll remember yoo. I remember well ... they're making me do a lot of remembering here, We're pretty much away from everything here. I haven't seen a single newspaper this past week.

[You haven't missed much, I think.]

But the people make up for it! Some of the most interesting and pleasant folks I've been around in a long while. Like the people outside, we all have lots of problems, but unlike them, we're admitting it and trying to do something about it, ha, ha!

[ha ha! ]

You should see the cat they have here ... it's totally crazy! It jumps at people from the shrubbery, bounces off them, and then runs away aguin!

[I don't think I need to see it - I can picture it from that description! What colour is it? (the one I'm picturing is mostly black, with white bits on its paws)]

> keep being you and don't for anything stop.

When i'll be back will depend on the docs here, and my persuasive powers. Yoo can imagine from what yoo know, it might take a while ... there are several prejudices I'm going to be going up against. Currently my best hope is to try and gain access to the internet from here within uthousenay. Might also take a while.

[For many wide ranging and various reasons which I won't bore you with I've pretty much left H2G2 since yesterday (Wedneday October 3rd), at speed and without fanfare or explanation. There's been some amusingly wrong speculation that it might be because of the reaction at tapioca to the content of the Modest Proposal (which is, in case you didn't know, being adopted! Surprised? I am. Magna Carta is getting adopted too, mostly. We're changing things! All our discussion at Lifetime Suspension actually seems to be achieving something. You should feel good about that too.). My personal space is now empty, my unedited entries are gone, and I'm not logging in or posting to conversations here any more. (apart from this one, obviously!). I might be back, possibly before you, possibly after, possibly not at all. For now though, I'm going to lurk this conversation, because I want to know how you are, when you're back, and one other thing... what does "Einauni Muznobotti" mean?

H.