h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Neil Gaiman was signing books in DUblin yesterday. My daughters brought loads of his books in and he signed them all, including my ancient copy of Good Omens.

Well you've got me there, I have never heard of Neil Gaiman . . . if you asked me I would have said it was what the Queen said to Ian McKellan before knighting him.

How nice of him. Hope the weekend is goimg well.

AR80

I haven't read Good Omens for years. Must find a copy in the library. I enjoyed it

Lucky you ... signed books. I have a few and they are precious.

R, Neil Gaiman is that author of many light-hearted and humourous fantasy novels, including Stardust, Anansi Boys and Neverwhere. Stardust was made into a film with Michelle Pfeiffer and Robert de Niro.

He wrote Good Omens with Terry Pratchett, who you may have heard of.

Stardust is a terrific film! De Niro camping it up as the pirate captain . . . but a really good story line. A palpable sense of urgency. Have heard of but not read Terry Pratchett. For fantasy my favourite is Vonnegut.

I enjoyed reading Anansi Boys and Neverwhere

Good Omens was the story of the Apocalypse which went wrong. The forces of Good and Evil amassed at Armageddon (which is in southern Israel, I believe) for the final battle, but due to an administrative mix up, the Antichrist never turned up. He grew up as a small boy in rural England, out of the influence of either good or evil and got to make his own decisions. An incredibly funny and clever book.

Interesting .... I may read that - thanks.

Hmm . . . when you think of it, a Force of Good (or Evil) is necessarily a purely fictional beast. There could never be such a thing -- how could it operate?

St Francis of Assisi was a notable "force for good", we might say. But what sort of success did he have? As soon as he died, the church contradicted his whole ethos, by erecting a humungous mausoleum to commemorate a man who stood for the utmost poverty and simplicity. Then it got worse:

“The saint's immediate successor as head of the order, Brother Elias, wallowed in luxury, and allowed a complete abandonment of poverty. The chief work of the Franciscans in the years immediately following the death of their founder was as recruiting sergeants in the bitter and bloody wars of Guelfs and Ghibellines. The Inquisition, founded seven years after his death was, in several countries, chiefly conducted by Franciscans. [...] The net result of St Francis's life was to create yet one more wealthy and corrupt order, to strengthen the hierarchy, and to facilitate the persecution of all who excelled in moral earnestness or freedom of thought. In view of his own aims and character, it is impossible to imagine any more bitterly ironical outcome. [...] If Satan existed, the future of the order founded by St. Francis would afford him the most exquisite gratification.”
"History of Western Philosophy" by Bertrand Russell, p441-442

Dear recumbentman,

Well, thank goodness I have not read Bertrand's Russells History of Western Philosophy.!! I just thought that he was an extraordinarily magnificent mathematician!!.

Anyway, for someone who appears to have his good works so belittled posthumously, it is remarkable how long lasting the works of St. Francis are. As for poor Brother Elias. It was he who went to find Sr Francis who had spent two years with the Caliph in Jerusalem discussing religion. Bro. Elias begged Francis to return to Rome where the current hierarchy was undoing all the work that St. Francis had done in founding his new order or Brothers. The final insult was burying him in that Basilica in Assisi - which I did NOT visit. !

One story, which I have heard is that only Franciscans were allowed in Jerusalem and that this was because of the work of St. Francis and his friendship with the Caliph. Perhaps you could throw some light as to whether this is true or is a myth. ? !

The church was tragicaly very corrupt at that time, and the example of St. Francis and his followers did make an impression on the church and actually really revitilised it. I have had the great joy of going to Mount Verna and actually saying a rosary in the rocky mountain cell of St. Francis. I think that Bertrand Russell had differing views to many about the Catholic church. However he was a great mind and a marvellous mathematiciianl and whatever his views I do respect him for that. He was also an octogenarian. which was the reason why I was quoting his work.

Thank you for bringing this to our notice.

I have virtually very little doubt that had St. Francis lived in our modern times he would probably have been sectioned.

However I have a deep reverence and love for the way in which he abandoned his way of life and literally became one with nature.

If nothing else he was certainly the first Nature conservationaist. !!


Christiane. AR80

I greatly respect St Francis, and so did Russell; he writes glowing praise for him on page 471 of the History of Western Philosophy. As you say, it was turbulent times for the church.

I can't answer your question about Jerusalem though. I really don't know very much about the Franciscans. The story about European-Jerusalem relations that I like best (Russell again, p 466) is how the Emperor Frederick II, excommunicated by the pope for not going on a crusade when asked to, went in his own time in 1228, and instead of fighting the Saracens, sat down and negotiated. They accepted his terms and crowned him King of Jerusalem, to the intense annoyance of the pope.

I was in Rome last week visiting the (Franciscan) Irish College there. The present Franciscans are a wonderful bunch, so perhaps in the very long term St Francis was not the failure he appeared to Russell: that failure was measured in terms of the first two centuries after his death.

By the way, the first quote about St Francis comes on page 472 of my copy of Russell's HWP (1948). I couldn't find my copy when posting it, and took the quote from a web site instead. Just for the record.

I have a personal dislike of Russell, being of the rival Wittgenstein camp . . . I read Ray Monk's biography of Russell (two large volumes) and was amazed to meet in it a biographer who couldn't, despite his best efforts, actually get to like his subject. Russell had a great dislike of himself, in a way, so that's three of us. But it can't be denied that he wrote with extraordinary fluency, clarity, insight and wit.

I've got Anansi Boys and Good Omens both as Audio Books. I hadn't noticed the connection!

Hi recumbentman,

I am intrigued with your story about Frederick the 11 - or rahter Russell's account of it in 1288.

It seems to prarallel St. Francis trip so much except that I think I remember that Francis went to Jerusalem in 1219 and was fetched back by Bro. Elias in 1221 He then left all his monks and retired to Mount verna and eventually died in 1226 in the Portuinculla.

There was a St. bonaventure who disliked St. Francis immensely. He took over the order in 1250 or thereabouts and the first thing that he did was to have every single work of St. Francis destroyed.

We owe a huge debt to the Protestants who did not follow this injuction of St. bonaventure,

the only reason that we have any of his works now are because there were several Protestant Monasteries who kept them. I believe that the last work of St. Francis was discovered in 1923 - Yes less than a 100 years ago. Five years before I was born !!

Do keep in touch. I have enjoyed talking with you.

Sincerely,

Christiane
AR80


I do hope that what I read on your homepage about departing was not true.

at last I have discovered a fellow philosopher - even though you do like Wittgenstein. !!

I went to a lecture on Logical Positivism given by - oh dear I hope I remember but he was quite a famous philosopher - although I was one of the few students taking notes, and spoke to the famous philospher aterwads it certainly did not make me appreciate |LP any more.

I am afraid that I am a Rousseaurian I get very upset when I see how that dreadful voltaire dreated him.

The ethos of

"Il faut cultiver son jardin.......appals me as much now as it ever did.

However for my sociological research I have graduated to Phenomenology and did all my research in South Africa from that approach. I t seems that all the work that I did has been transferred to the alfred Schutz Phenomenological Research Centre at Waseda(sp) University in Tokyo - such an nour. I have been commisioned to write an account of my period of research but just cannot manage to get up the energy to do it.

Sincerely,

CME AR80


Let us hope that this charismatic new President elect will change that.

sincerely.

CME
AR80

How are you my dear?

It is ages since we have been in touch. Hope you are both well.

Much affection

CME AR80

Good Omens is the only Neil Gaiman book I've read. It's fantastic. And not quite as disturbing as the authors' photo.

I'm a fan of Terry Pratchett.

TRiG.

If we may continue to hijack your journal, Gnomon . . .

Hello AR80! I wonder was it A J Ayer you heard lecturing? He was the English voice of Logical Positivism, and it was a secondary-school course on his book 'Language, Truth and Logic' (as much as anything else) that encouraged me to study philosophy at college.

LP is sometimes laid at Wittgenstein's door, but he didn't like it himself. His Tractatus had a big influence on the Vienna Circle, who read it and produced Logical Positivism out of it; but when they got Wittgenstein to visit and talk to them they were rather alarmed. They would have nothing to do with mysticism, but Wittgenstein was full of the mystical. The difference was this: they threw the mystical out with the bathwater, but W held it was of the highest importance . . . only you couldn't say anything about it. Not contradictory: there are things (he held) that cannot be said, only shown.

Hoorah!!

You got it in one. !!

It was an extraordinary experience, because there I was, a middle aged lady from South Africa, attending a lecture by the GREAT (in our eyes) A.J. Ayer and I was virtually the only one taking notes. !! i felt an ass. !! Particularly as I did not like LP. and at that stage certainly not Wittgenstein. !

As I get older ( nearly double the age I was as a student. !!( I am more tolerant(I hope!!) , but I prefer other philosophers . I get most ferociously enraged with Voltaire; although I also get quite angry with Willard van Orman Quine.

I remember getting very upset whe he described a building with a
"square,round, cupola"

"Impossible" mutters this this silly middleaged aspiring philosopher.

You can imagine my chagrin when my late husband and I drove through the sports fields of the University of California - and there it was

"A sqaure,round,cupola"

My mind stops at the empirical - I do not appear to be able to look beyond. Although, I do aspire to look beyond, but I feel on much firmer ground with phenomenology where I can combine ideas with empirical statements. Ah well. There is still life in this old biddy even if it takes me much longer to do things, and is virtually impossible to get around. !

Anyway, Lovely to be reminded of that famous lecture - and walking through those hallowed corridors of that University.

So thank you so much for remembering AJAyer. I wonder if I would have managed to do so on my own - I doubt it. !!

Thank you

Christiane
AR80

I'm with you on 'not seeing beyond' -- so was my other hero, Berkeley http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/A3472986

I'm sure I've pointed you towards my entry on Berkeley before, but what the hell, there may be an impressionable lurker about . . .

Nice to read the thoughts of another philosophollower . . . I can't imagine what Quine did to annoy you?