h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

...than on the Dawkins thread.

I think you *did* know what I was talking about when I said that, assuming the Yikesed post was about the death of 30 humans in a Kenyan church, the use of such a tragedy to make a point on the futility of trusting in god would be cheap. And 'I don't do pc' isn't a good excuse, whether it's from Bernard Manning, Jim Dale, Roy 'Chubby' Brown or anyone.

I also think it's unfair, in this context, that you've contrasted the homophobia that goes unYikesed. If you've seen homophobia go unchallenged by me, please let me know.

I don't want us to fall out over this. I hope this will be taken in the spirit of a gentle hint that I won't support all points of view, simply because they come from 'our' side. I expect Atheists to hold themselves to a higher standard than we get from the opposition. Don't you see that such things give others an excuse to stop listening?

Besides - I'm a contrary bugger.

Still friends?

Hi ed

No I didn't immediately know what you meant. Not because of it being about the church, but about it being a cheap shot. I thought more about it and saw that it could be construed as that. I had never thought of it like that. When I made the post, I was thinking about the principle in general of people believing that doing a specific thing because they believe 'God' would save them was foolish. In my post I gave an account of that specific example in Kenya, and said it was a good example of theists to ponder.

Late on after re-reading my post I could see that it had been expressed very insensitively.

The reason I contrasted it with 'homophobia' is that I never yikes the stuff because I believe as adults we should be able to discuss a post. Whoever it was who yikesed my post, and I've had a few yikesed lately, obviously was someone who took some things to be insulting an d not others. It's the yikesing principle I'm comparing. I didn't make that clear.

Had my post not been yikesed we could have thrashed it out with each other on the thread according to my specific wording. I know 3dots says this site is more accepting than others, I still find it immensely frustrating when the evidence disappears so proper debate then becomes impossible about the facts of the post.

MY judgement is a bit awry I think at present. And I'm going to attempt not to join in with debate when it just centres on theism, rather than on 'Herr Dawkin's ideas and his fellow rotweillers

I don't think the 'other' side listens in any case, however reasonable we are. Gif is incredibly reasonable and clear in his arguments, and look at the contempt with which he is treated.

I don't want to fall out either, and my 'standard' may well be lower than yours; I'm an excessively moody person sometimes, and shoot from the hip. I later then calm down. I think there should be a place for everyone as a rational atheist, however emotional they sometimes are, and with what vehemance they sometimes express themselves. So long as they later apologise if they feel they've overstepped the mark. If very high standards are to be expected at all times then it will be impossible for me to contribute at all. Dogster has already made it clear that he thinks my standards aren't high enough.

Yes of course we're still friends, and I wouldn't expect you to support me all the time, very much the opposite. Coming here and speaking to me was really good of you.

Good. Let's move on, then.

My only point is that that post could have been equally offensive to Atheists and Theists. And it it would have been impossible for me to sincerely argue against anyone taking offence.

>>My only point is that that post could have been equally offensive to Atheists and Theists. And it it would have been impossible for me to sincerely argue against anyone taking offence.<<

Yes *could have been*. But because it was yikesed, proper debate then became impossible. I always get really wound up when something is yikesed and lose my ability to calmly reason things, temporarily, because the *facts* of the wording disappear. It continues to mystify me why certain things get yikesed, rather than allowing for debate.

My standard of what's so offensive that it should be yikesed is incredibly high. Recently there were a couple of posts on a thread about homosexuality that I found very unpleasant; I didn't yikes them, but someone else did, who immediately owned up to it, and I totally respect someone for doing that. I said I wasn't altogether sorry because they left such a nasty taste in my mouth. One of the posts was later re-instated, which personally I found quite amazing if my recent post is to be considered beyond the pale in the context of discussion on that thread.

The only stuff I would ever consider yikesing is when it feels like someone is stalking you, and feels threatening personally. That is one of the reasons I have now got rid of my friends list, and call it a 'impersonal space'. Thinking of it as an impersonal space means I don't feel so affected by stuff. I have started taking some olanzapine for a couple of days now because I think my sense of judgement and reality has gone a bit haywire lately.

I found it really helpful talking to Gif.

And yes it's good to now move on.

Well...I suppose we make our own judgements about whether to Yikes or not. I *have* Yikesed in the past - rarely - but wouldn't have Yikesed your post.

Good luck with the olanzapine. I hope it's not making you too drowsy. Only the other day I was remembering (don't know why) thne time 'They' had to keep upping my dose until I could hardly get out of bed. I woke up very embarassed.

Yes Ed, I'm feeling loads better already. Almost immediately in fact, partly because of the increased sleep. I'd almost stopped sleeping before, always a danger sign. I'm on a pretty low dose now and the drowsiness is not too much of a problemo. Big appetite is annoying though, after christmas. It's amazing the way it's given me back just that little bit of distance on things to not over react immediately without thinking and jumping to wild conclusions. I daren't tell you the half of what I was thinking. Also do you ever get nightmares with it?

Thank god for modern pharmaceuticals anyway.

Ah...'Sleep Hygeine'. Very important. Lack of hygeine explains my recent blip-ette. Yup...been there with the thoughts that turn out to be bollocks in The Cold Light Of Day.

No, I've not had nightmares with Olanzapene, but I only took it for a short time in hospital. I do get nightmares if ever I forget to take my venlafaxine, though. (In fact...occasionally I do it for entertainment). They usually start out as a succesion of really great, detailed dreams and later descend into me fighting with my dad.

If in doubt...turn off the computer and go to bed. It's an important self-management skill.