This is the Message Centre for AE Hill, Mabin-OGion Character of inauspicious repute


Post 21

AE Hill, Mabin-OGion Character of inauspicious repute

At night the eye looses color vision.
At night all we see is different shades of grey.
Lest you get the wrong idea,
I think I am a bit prudish of center during the night.


Post 22

AE Hill, Mabin-OGion Character of inauspicious repute

While I was thinking I wrote...

What Does Physiology Teach Us About Psychology? A87775032


Post 23


Whoa, you are going to have to slow down with my reading list, or accept that I am not going to get through it, which wouldn't be a lack of interest, simply because I can't manage the pace. Sorry

smiley - hug

Yesterday I tried the blurb thing again, mmm, that ended up with 30 year over overview of my political experiences and choices of expression, plus half a page on being a bystander. Besides it being very long even if I split it into two posts I didn't post because for some reason I wasn't comfortable with a whole of my history in one go online

Anyway back to the crowds, I get it and I don't trust anyone in a crowd. It is always important to think for yourself and when you are frightened and threatened to think above yourself. I know that I can do that.

I also prepare myself before a protest big or small. I know what my intentions are, what lines I am going to cross, if any, and if I am going to break the law how I am going to behave while doing that.
I think through scenerios and am prepared for the unexpected.

Communication is key and the ability to suss those small changes in mood and behaviour, not just the police but protesters also. Early action has saved more than one protest from going tits up.
I might not trust the police but I act in good faith and I expect a degree of that from them. That is possible in smaller protests.
In a crowd situation I don't kid myself I have any control except over myself

As for bystanding, I'll just say I am not one. I watched a Panarama programme about Jimmy Savile, there were people who could barely meet the camara's eye. I know for sure, I wouldn't be in a position where I felt guilt about what I didn't do.

So that is me caught up on two days ago then smiley - winkeye

unexpected visitor dropping round in about five minutes, me Ma, quick panic tidy up smiley - run

Peanut smiley - peacesign


Post 24


*re-reads post*

does this sound really judgey?

As for bystanding, I'll just say I am not one. I watched a Panarama programme about Jimmy Savile, there were people who could barely meet the camara's eye. I know for sure, I wouldn't be in a position where I felt guilt about what I didn't do.

it wasn't meant to be judgey at all, it was just that I saw someones utter discomfort because of the reasons why they didn't do anything and thought how hard that must be to deal with and empathised with that

I thought that, for me, I would be thankful not to be going through that as I would have got my trusty smiley - whistle out,

smiley - whistle blowing would have been the only option for me


Post 25

AE Hill, Mabin-OGion Character of inauspicious repute

Peanut my friend,

My expectation of a friend is that you will EASILY do as you need to do.
If ya need to answer mum’s call, then you can assume that I am happy for ya.
If ya only have time to read so much, so much the better if that is what ya need to do.
Some hint of what’s going on is even better, but a full on explanation is not required.

Nice hear your mum visited, were you girls good or did ya sip the nip with Hicup?

Going on…
I am allowing myself to be a bit more prolific without pushing myself too hard.
This I do with three bits of awareness; one, it might be too much for a friend to read, and two, the quality might suffer some, and three, it might not interest one or more of my friends enough for them to wade through that particular message. I expect ya to pick and choose as you see fit at the time. That way I will not become a burden to my friend and we can both smile at the end of the day. [smiles]

As for the Jimmy thing, I only know of the story, not the background. Still, I have strong feelings about that kind of thing and I can understand that you have strong feelings about the whole thing. If I understand you, you are appalled by Jimmy’s actions but in the last post you also understand the pain of the people who were the Jimmy’s victims. You felt bad as you saw some of them on public camera. [On that point, I also despise the Journalism that failed to be more sensitive to the victims!] Sure, the public needs to know the story and how emotionally battered the victims really are, but footage sells and victims being damned, money forced those people through yet another atrocity. And you can be sure that the victims will be put through another excessive recounting if any suits or charges are filed against any surviving accessories to the crimes.

Perhaps a dead person should, in special cases, be publicly prosecuted in some special trial. That way, if there is any exaggeration of the truth, for or against, the purp’ the name of the dead person will be more honestly recorded in history than what some yellow journalistic news organization reports. Oh what am I thinking, is a barrister going to present any more truthful account than the news did? I guess it would be different, but no more truthful.

To the point of you sounding judgey, it would be judgey of me to think so! You cannot avoid having an opinion on the matter, that opinion seems reasonable to me, even though it includes some notion of right and wrong [judgmental]. I happen to agree that all this mess is a bad thing.

On the subject of being a part of a crowd:
Us yanks have a wild history of mob violence. I know that the lessons there are not just local lessons. Good people, who would not hurt a fly on a normal day, were part of a mob that brutally hung a person, perhaps an innocent person. Good people supported bad leaders in WWII.

My Dad told me a story that he wanted me to understand. He told me this story right after it happened. I was but a boy; he was with faults, but he was way above average in his integrity. He had a good paying union job, but money was still tight in our family of eight. There was a mandatory meeting called to consider a strike vote. My Dad was very clear that he did not want to strike, the family could not go with that many paychecks if there was a strike called. He went to the meeting and low and behold, as the vote was called for, he raised his hand. What he wanted me to know was that he did not understand what happened. He said it was like a different person was raising his hand and he was watching as it happened in utter disbelief. He was still stunned the next day as he recounted this story to me. He did know that the fervor of the mob was the cause, but he was stunned that his prior conviction failed to counteract his actions [even if his logical mind was still aware in the moment]. This is the power of the crowd. It goes beyond brainwashing. It goes to the herd mentality, something powerful enough to over-ride the logical mind.

In terms of the Prison Experiment, the guards and the inmates were from the same group, a group that was a cut above average intelligence and filtered for any psychological problems. These were “good” people who were randomly divided into guards or inmates. The youtube video I linked to was biased to show the deviant behavior of the guards. In the experiment, both the guards and the inmates became deviants from what they were on a normal day. Some tried to tell themselves that it was all just a test, after all, it was not real and they all knew that fact!

I personally confronted Philip Zimbardo long after the experiment to understand the lessons learned. He was still at a loss to explain to my satisfaction what it all meant.

I could be wrong, but I do believe that you would have more options than to only blow the smiley - whistle . Victims also behave in ways that are contrary to “normal” behavior.

AE smiley - cool

ps. I started my first Journal Entry in preparation for November’s NaJoPoMo.


Post 26


we have wires totally crossed

detangle, quickly,

*Peanut slaps herself*, of course, I should have either explained more, or not used this as a frame of reference given our locations

I wasn't talking about the people who experienced abuse.

I am talking about people who could have taken an action that would have in some way led to protecting and advocating for them

now that means different things for different people in terms of being accountable. We are talking from work collegues, to professionals in health care and social services, management of health and social services, the bbc from bottom up, the police, the Crown Prosecution Service, fact is that a very connected, well known predatory sex offender got away with years of abuse by decieving everyone right up through to no 10 and Buck Palace

well, that would be nice wouldn't it, it everyone was actually like really decieved, but no, they weren't,people either didn't believe, or didn't want to believe and had any number of frameworks for that,or did believe and didn't think they could do anything about it again frameworks and when they did really believe and did something no action was taken and no bloody linking up

We don't know the scale of it and there is going to be a whole other layer of establishing that, it is a steam train at the moment, it will take a while to sort

but fact is predatory sex offender 'got away' with abuse under everyone noses, for decades.

There has only been four weeks or so of that language not being in dispute

the How and Why questions can now be pertinently asked

the point I was making in my post while this is a very complex case many people are asking of themselves,

what questions they should have asked,
what they should have heard,
what they should have known,
what they should have done

and we can all ask that of ourselves

listening to people asking those questions and putting myself in the same context, I know my answers

*posts and get back to reading rest of your post*


Post 27

AE Hill, Mabin-OGion Character of inauspicious repute

OIC [oh, I see...]

Yes, people were the accessories to that crime.
They were complaisant or at least complacent and therefore culpable for the crimes.

AEsmiley - ok


Post 28


In the Prison Experiment, two people quit, some prisoners took action against the guards behaviour and acted in support of others and Zimbardo girlfiend argued that the experiment was unethical.

It is disturbing, the ethics behind the experiment and the way that people responded within it or to it seems that individual personality did count.

I am not claiming that I could never be swayed into doing something against my better judgement because we don't *really* know till we are tested.

Niether am I claiming that I could never be broken because there was a time in my life when I was becoming just that. This didn't influence my behaviour in term of others, it took me a while to get out of a profoundly unhealthy relationship when I was 18.

The contradiction was that I was in a job that involved caring and advocating for others and not blowing my own trumpet because in my assessments I was scorching it.

Nowhere near the scale of what we are talking about there was a bonding exercise that no-one was keen, everyone was moaning, it was discussed as a group with our tutors who offered to call in the director so we could put our case

Who stood up and made the case, there were other things we could that would be bonding and challanging blah de blah, I didn't have the right gear to do it, he lent me it. I asked if a majority could win out. Maybe. So I said I had made my case it was up to others now to say their piece

One other person said something. That he personally was looking forward to the exercise but if the majority of the group did not wantto go, he would stand by them.

The director left and we were going. I went ballastic, calling people cowardly and gutless, if you wanted to just whinge why take the opportunity our tutors had offered us,I was steaming and I stomped off because by this time my language was really quite ripe and I knew I was in right paddy and I didn't want to be so unmeasured smiley - rolleyes

It *is* a little thing. But it was used as a lesson. Only two people out 19 passed the test

The hardest thing I have probably done is called social services about a friend partner. I knew that her relationship was not good, I had tried to be a good friend, there to listen, not to judge, offer alternatives or just listen.

One day I was looking after the kids one took of her top and she had a hand print on her back. I challanged my friend about this I begged and pleaded that she would leave or rather kick him out She had to protect her kids, to get outside support.

I said I couldn't be her friend in the way that I had been and I felt badly but emotionally I couldn't cope with it. The kids could come round, we could chat when we met outside, I would be there if she needed me in an emergancy or if she decided to leave but I couldn't do tea and sympathy anymore

She stayed with him. I couldn't stand by. I remained anomymous for all sorts of reasons,one of them being my own protection from a clearly violent bloke but said if it came to it I would be prepared to go public, for instance as a witness. If my friend asked me I wouldn't have lied but she never did.

3 months later he was gone. I was pleased but niether of us made an attempt to rebuild our relationship. Nothing nasty in that

I have done the same when another friends alcholism was putting her child at serious risk, only this time I spoke to someone in authority that I trusted at the school, on the record and made it clear that I expected them to take responsibility. Which they did

That was less hard because I knew and trusted the person I was reporting to. Social services more of an unknown quanity.

So these are the types of experiences that I can say that make me confident that I don't look the other way

In terms of being part of a crowd, it is a powerful thing,and in that situation there it is about getting carried away. In other situations the pressure to conform is enormous and I think that ability to act in accordance to what you think is right is as much this is about the 'tool kit' (learnt skills)you have as much as the personality you have.


Post 29


wonders if this is an appropriate title for a thread that is conversation not part of NaMoJoPo

could we start a new one but put a link to this one ( just for my own personal sense of continuity smiley - blush)


Post 30

AE Hill, Mabin-OGion Character of inauspicious repute

*wonders if this is an appropriate title for a thread that is conversation not part of NaMoJoPo*

I am happy to start a new thread, no problem.

Well, one little problem, what title properly represents our conversation? But I am not too picky, what title comes close?

I am happy to branch even knowing that NaJoPoMo seems to me to meet and exceed the very loose rules of NaMoJoPo [and it is spelled different].

I know... let's name it *friends* with a small *f*.
We can talk about anything friends talk about plus any of the deeper things of human relationships.

What say you? smiley - smiley

AE smiley - cool


Post 31

AE Hill, Mabin-OGion Character of inauspicious repute

Now I am am really confused smiley - laughsmiley - winkeye

NaJoPoMo IS the *official* title.

Did ya want to call it *NaMoJoPo*? smiley - laughsmiley - winkeye

Funny how the brain works [or in some cases doesn't work].

My official NaJoPoMo Journal entry is called:
NaJoPoMo, AEHill, November 2012

"Too many notes!" [from Amadeus, the movie]

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