h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'd like to know more about this theory or group feeling producing results....

think you can help?

-- DoctorMO --

Doctor MO

I want to give you a considered reply, and I will if I can. But I may be about to go away for 3 weeks, and if I do, I may not have time.

But think of a mob, or an audience at a concert or play, or the spectators at a sporting event, or the housing market - where the group takes on an energy greater and different from the energy of the individuals.

Individuals are swept up in the energy of the group, but that energy is created out of the hopes and fears and laughter and cheers of the individuals.

Keep asking me questions, though.

Regards

Ben

Do you think this has anything to do with the heard theory? were it is important for all the animals in a heard to know if a lion is about, now It is imposable for all the information to get transfeared but what if it was just the fear, that would be enough to make them all run. perhaps with more advanced animals this has developed some how? so that many emotions are convaied and a group can feel the same or simiraly.

-- DoctorMO --

Do you think this has anything to do with the heard theory? were it is important for all the animals in a heard to know if a lion is about, now It is imposable for all the information to get transfeared but what if it was just the fear, that would be enough to make them all run. perhaps with more advanced animals this has developed some how? so that many emotions are convaied and a group can feel the same or simiraly.

-- DoctorMO --

Seems pretty convincing to me. We are a social - ie a group - species. I am all in favour of evolutionary explanations for human behaviour.

The nub of it is that even if all we can do is hold peace in our hearts, that in itself is an effective thing.

Have you read any Viktor E Frankl?

*falling asleep*



Ben

Never read any of his books, sorry. most of this comes from personal experance scene as most books I read are Text books perhaps I need to get out more.

Well, hapy dreaming don't let me keep you up and I'll continue this interesting desusion tomorow or when your next online.

-- DoctorMO --

Frankl was a prisoner in the Nazi death camps. He was also a psychotherapist. On the back of my copy of his book it says 'he developed a revolutionary approach to psychotherapy known as logotherapy. At the core os his theory is the belief that man's primary motivational force is his search for meaning.'

What he also said - and here I paraphrase - is that he was freer and had more choices in the death camps than the Nazis who ran them. This was because he took personal responsibility for how he reacted and what he thought: responsibility for what went on in his head. On the other hand the Nazis - who had more physical power - were just reacting on reflex.

Some pretty profound stuff about the importance and validity of taking conscious control of the conscious mind.

Ben

So often the case that when you become conformist you lost your inderpendence.
Although I will say that not all Natzis thought what they were told to think.

-- DoctorMO --

Absolutely. Ironically, I have a dear friend who is the grand-daughter of a Nazi - a Nazi with qualms who refused to do all that was demanded of him in 1944, and died for it.

And what do any of us know about how we would have reacted if we had lived in Germany, starving and with no money, through the 20s and 30s, and then been offered the glorious vision of shiny uniforms, family values and economic greatness.

The architects of the Treaty of Versailles (was it? the one in 1919) created the world in which the death camps were possible. That does at least appear to be a lesson which has been learned, and now we drop food as well as bombs.

Ben

Don't forget that the Treaty of Versilli was contructed by countries bent on Revenge, how can you make some sort of peace deal with people like that? There should have been a third party whos job was to make sure the French and British didn't take too much out of germany.

-- DoctorMO --

Well, I do think we are slowly learning.

Certainly the Allies did not screw Germany, Japan and Italy in 1945. Quite the reverse, in fact. And we are dropping food-aid on Afghanistan which is more about Western propaganda than any kind of humanitarian effort, but it is a sign in the right direction.

I think that television has actually helped us to realise that we are all of the same species, at least.

B

Say one thing that the news wouldn't have got here 1/1000 of as fast as it did about the WTC because we atualy saw that live.

Like we were there, brings it home to you.

-- DoctorMO --

Sorry to butt in, I came in from Ben's page.

Yes, TV/Media has been a population-influence since the Viet Nam war, and more recently in the Gulf War a decade ago. I would love it if it convinced aggressors that we are all human.

Talking about the heard/herd mind, also known as the hive mind: I find this very interesting, both with regard to ants (which do think as one, definitely) and with regard to humans. I only study ants when they invade my property, but I have learned how to perform genocide (I do feel guilt, but I have to do it!) with dettol or boiling water. It's impressive to note that pouring water on an ant at one end of the kitchen will cause those at the other side of the kitchen to flee or vanish. I haven't ruled out teleportation (seriously!)

About ten years ago, four separate groups of people, from different areas of the world, tried to patent the same combination of strokes (a bell-ringing contest with eleven bells, I think, although my memory fades now). They'd had no contact and no common source of research, it was just a matter of Deep Thought's logic circuits coming up with a sub-routine!

I recognise the energy Ben's talking about. On a personal level, I can feel, when I try very hard, the energy swirling about my chakras; when I have a headache, I can sometimes cure it by smooting the swirls. When something massive happens (two examples: 11 September 2001, and 31 December 1999) my hair prickles and I feel electricity. It's as if the air is charged with everyone's excitement (positive or negative).

Oh, well, I'll stop going on...

x x Fenny (meaning to write only a short note while seeking Zero Intolerance)

the first point is that meida has realy been going on for some years and this realy dosn't take pople long to exploit it.

Second I can heal most pain that I feel but I think this has something to do with Plasibo(SP?) but hey it works and a cure is a cure. don't just think that because science says stuf like energys and positive feeling and negitive feeling isn't real dosn't mean that it isn't or that some how this is somting difrent it just means that science has yet to come upon the prof or realy any infomation which could jutify it. (think about lighning)

-- DoctorMO --

Thanks Doc

Placebo Effect was proven when a doctor(s) gave a sample group of patients flavoured distilled water instead of medicine, and the patients got better.

I agree: Something which isn't proven in science could still exist (my theory matches yours). I led a discussion in one of the Ask h2g2 threads, about whether telepathy/cognition/any ESP could occur, and was pleasantly surprised about the number of people with 'paranormal' experiences.

x x Fenny (apologising for the brief response, hoping for Zero Intolerance)

The reason people have 'experances' is because people as creatures and still liked to this the 3rd demention by space, can't know alot about it, infact it would take you a very very long time to know what was going on,

About ghosts and things, ghosts exist but people kep on thinking that they are people they are not, mearly a shadow of energy. when you die it is almost certain that your life energy is used up again, and it may not be in one pice mainly because we are all made up of the same thing and to say that us as inderviduals can remain so after death is to denie plausablity.

hope i don't scare you away.

-- DoctorMO --