This is the Message Centre for woofti aka groovy gravy

22.04.05

Post 1

woofti aka groovy gravy

I felt a lot better this morning despite strange dreams in the a.m. The batteries in my bathroom radio are giving out - after several years of good service. I suppose I only listen to that radio when I'm showering in the mornings. I must remember to go out for some new ones as my stockpile of AA batteries (10 for the price of 2 or something ridiculous at Dixons) has finally reached its end.

Got an advertising email from Archers Addicts and decided to go to their "Summer Treat" after all. "Summer Treat" sounds rather Enid Blyton, doesn't it. Lashings of fizzy pop! It had better be good for £40. David, Ruth, Kathy and Eddie will be there, apparently. Plus La Whitburn and the sound effects lady. At least one other mustardlander I know of is going, but I hope more turn up so that we can represent Mustardland in a convincing way. At Cromford in the pub we were the odd ones out - it was a case of telling people who wondered who we were, "We're Archers listeners who meet on a messageboard in cyberspace"; but at Birmingham everyone will be an Archers listener. But we will be mustardlanders! The question is, is ML anything to be proud of these days?

That means that my tally of pre-move social events has risen from 3 to 4.

Finally had enough of Thomas Paine's caustic opinions about the Bible. It got very wearing after a while, so I only skim-read the rest of his book. Not big, not clever to so crashingly do down something that is so precious to so many people (including me). (Is that enough to convince the reader that I care not a fig about split infinitives!) As I am not a historian I don't feel obliged to read it for its undoubted historical value. And I am sure that Paine had good political reasons to speak the way he did. I just got fed up with the man's bile. He must have had a very low opinion of Christians. We must be very, very stupid, if what he says is all there is to say about the Bible and the Christian faith. I would rather believe the Apostle Paul, who wrote:

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14).

Yes, the Christian faith is a mystery, and requires participation for it to make sense. To the outsider it is all gobbledegook - and that is the way it is designed (read 1 Corinthians 1:18-25). Even Jesus spoke in parables so that outsiders wouldn't get it (Matthew 13:10-16). Gosh, that makes it sound like Christians are one big clique! That is certainly the way it can seem sometimes. But there is another dimension to the Christian faith, one often neglected by the church - that of mission. If Christians seem closed off to the world, then they are getting it wrong.

Why is the Bible with its teachings closed off to the world? Because it's Christians' business, not the unbeliever's. It's in-house stuff. Not for outsiders. We are supposed to be the bearers of God's secret counsels (Ps. 25:14). By contrast, deeds of love, kindness and inclusion are for the unbelieving world. The fruit of the Spirit is for the world to eat (Galatians 5:22-23). Often, Christians (especially young Christians, at schools and universities) get the two dimensions mixed up. They think that their being and doing is supposed to be closed off to the world, and they behave like a clique, a "holy huddle". That is not the way it's meant to be. What is between Christians and God - worship, the sacraments, preaching, prayer, Bible-reading, the "knowledge of God" - is private, certainly. But what is between Christians and people, namely the result of all that holy activity - good deeds, kindness, inclusion, etc. - that is public. A Christian ought to have a totally open life, open to scrutiny from all quarters at all times, like a 24/7 shop window. True, there are times in a Christian's life when he is enclosed. But there are also times when he is opened out to the world. Paradoxically, those who are most enclosed (monks, nuns, hermits) are often those who are most opened out to the world.

Crikey, where did all that come from?

Oh, that's right, Thom. Paine.

Well, I had a vindaloo from the Kashmir takeaway this evening; it was over an hour ago that I had it and I can still taste its heat - that must be a good sign. Kashmir's vindaloo better than Nazam's, then. I also finished the last of Pete's Scotch Bonnet chilis. I ate the green one raw. It made me hiccup, but only for a short while. As Chris says, "A joyful pain that soon passes".

Time for a drink, I think - maybe a bottle of Italian red?


22.04.05

Post 2

newMissTee

I really liked the Theological content ~ very interesting & informative! Yes ~ it really is important to actually TAKE PART in Christianity to understand what it's all about. (And I don't like to worry about split infinitives either!)smiley - smiley

I'm certainly "thinking" about going to the Archers Summer Treat. Yes ~ it does sound rather Enid Blytonish!smiley - laugh Let's hope that there's some jolly whizzing things happening that day!!smiley - biggrinsmiley - cakesmiley - chocsmiley - teasmiley - bubblysmiley - ale






22.04.05

Post 3

Katy Tulip



smiley - magicsmiley - loveblushsmiley - lovesmiley - tongueoutsmiley - magic

But alas.

Don't think I can manage it. smiley - brokenheartsmiley - wah

Ahem.

smiley - sheep Katy smiley - rose


22.04.05

Post 4

woofti aka groovy gravy

You win the prize for the most eloquent use of smileys, Katy!

smiley - cheerup

Richard xx


22.04.05

Post 5

DruglessBrain


Hello dagesh.

I was doing a charity shop tour of Aberdeen today, and saw and thought about buying a copy of 'Early Christian Letters' for £2.99 in the Oxfam bookshop, but then I saw The Screwtape Letters and bought that instead.

What does Paul mean by "The man without the Spirit"? Does he see it as a congenital incurable void within a person or a 'lifestyle choice' - a shell the wearer has chosen to grow around himself, but which can be broken through?

Sue and I use rechargable batteries for our various radios, etc. There are currently 8 portable radios in our house, plus various hi-fi tuners and the PC. This makes us radio junkies, I suppose. One of our radios is always needing new batteries so we've always got a set in the charger.

Douglas


22.04.05

Post 6

woofti aka groovy gravy

The man without the Spirit is an unbeliever. When you believe in Christ, you receive the Holy Spirit and are grafted into the "olive tree", that is, the "vine" of Christ's family. (Sorry to mix metaphors, but both are Biblical.)

It isn't a "lifestyle choice" but an ontological change. You are transferred out of the darkness into God's "wonderful light". You are caught up into the Triune interplay of the eternal Godhead - through the Spirit, in Christ, unto the Father.

When I try to explain this to my house group I get glazed expressions. We do not have a living conception of what it is to be "in" another person, in our individualistic western culture.

The Holy Spirit lifts you into the dimension of the Kingdom of Heaven. The Holy Spirit does not take the place of your own spirit, but comes to live within you, alongside you, making Christ a living reality to your consciousness. Your consciousness changes at the deepest level, and the lifelong task of the Christian is to allow that change to permeate throughout the whole person, from the deepest levels to the visible personality.

As Paul says in Romans 8:9, "If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ".

HTH

dagesh


22.04.05

Post 7

Katy Tulip

That's extremely interesting, dagesh. Would that many churches, never mind the people inside them, actually lived out that principle. Some of the most unchristian people I've ever had the misfortune to meet are seen to be 'outstanding pillars of the church and community' - and I'm not talking about Shula Archer here, alas.

For various reasons (which are too complicated and personal to discuss here) I've found that going to church is actually a hindrance to my faith, rather than an ecouragement; it's been a relief in many ways not to do so anymore at all. But I do miss the fellowship I once knew there, I have to admit. Listening to the services on Radio 4 can't fill the void...

Katy smiley - rose


22.04.05

Post 8

woofti aka groovy gravy

I find that my faith is like an air-plant (have you ever seen an air-plant?). To plant it in the ground is to miss the point of it. But I do like to pray in a group and I like studying the Bible in a group as well.

Richard


22.04.05

Post 9

Katy Tulip

Must Google to see what an air-plant is like....

smiley - smiley Katy smiley - rose


22.04.05

Post 10

woofti aka groovy gravy

There are many different kinds of air plant but the one I had in my big front garden in Cape Town was "Spanish Moss" (tillandsia usneoides). I was intrigued by a plant with no roots but which drew all its nutrients from the air. I found a small frond of the plant hanging on the branch of a tree, but it was quite separate from the tree and I could remove it easily and put it in a different place. I was quite fond of my air plant.

Richard


22.04.05

Post 11

petal jam

Dagesh, sorry to intrude again - late, unasked. Was going to add something about "Being There" last evening, but was pushed off computer (no authority when your child is bigger than you) until v.late and lost my train of thought. Clicked the wrong entry today and ended up here.

Like Douglas was interested by your gobbet of St. Paul and adventures with Tom Payne. I /was/ trained as a historian of a particulary broad kind, so perhaps that is why I find it much easier to hang parts of Payne onto events and currents of thought than to hang St. Paul onto personal conviction. Am also enthralled by the "Tree of Life" which for me is an essential meeting place for humanity's search for symbols and understanding, being a motif (more than that - overarching theme) common to several belief-systems.

Not sure how my eternal tree (interconnection)is different from yours though. I think I have encountered too often what you describe as the "holy huddle"; more openness among muslim friends and neighbours who are more at ease living beside any faith rather than secularism, and hindu friends who see their world view echoed in the medieval christian model.

pj


22.04.05

Post 12

woofti aka groovy gravy

hi there pj

interested about the tree of life - you must expand on this further one day. Also interested that you have come across the "holy huddle" phenomenon - yes, it is really common in Christianity and reflects a basic misunderstanding of the message of the Gospel and the meaning of the Cross. I think that many of our churches are in a dreadful state spiritually, because of our individualistic and materialistic culture. I am looking forward to a change when I return to South Africa. I intend to go to a black township church... from past experience, things are very different there. Challenging though - you can't be a passive observer. You have to muck in.

Also fascinating about the hindus and mediaeval Christianity.


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