h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Melvyn,

Just to tell you that I´ve asked to have this my account on h2g2 closed for good.

The site itself doesn´t serves my interests as much as it does for you because I´m not writing any entries on here.

My interests are changing from time to time and besides history, my interests are running around politics a bit more since a considerable time.

I was reading your essays with interests and I hope that one day you´ll achieve what you´re looking for for years.

In case that you´ll have finally set up your own blog, you might leave a message (preferably provided with a link to your blog site) on here so I can have a look into that.

I´m not the one who stays on boards until the bitter end. I´ve seen too much of "bitter ends" in recent times and none of it was worth it to end bitter, but such is life and in where you can´t change things in life that easily, one can change things on the internet even easier. So because this place has outlived itself for my purposes, I´ve considered my decision and took the logic consequence. The link to another message board I´ve posted you in one of your late conversations is no longer valid to follow because I don´t post there anymore as well. I´ve find nearly the same types of posters who are just following their pursuit of getting in arguments and point scoring there as it was on the other Irish boards. Such an attitude doesn´t makes sense to me and from my personal outset, I´m in general not interested in arguments, I prefer simply the exchange of thoughts and knowledge on a civilized basis with civilized manners.

I hope that your recovery is progressing well and I wish you all the best for the future.

Take care of yourself and good luck with whatever you´re doing.

Good bye and kind regards,

Thomas

Morning Thomas

Well I can fully understand that... one has to wonder today whether Germany as a whole will decide that "enough is enough" about the constant need to bail-out not only Greece, but a whole swathe of Mediterranean States and economies... And it does feel like a time for new beginnings, especially for me.. Thank you for asking about my operation. It happened c11 days ago and I must say that I could hardly hope for things to have gone any better.. Apart from anything else I have not had to take any 'domestic' pain-killers, let alone the more powerful ones that the hospital gave me, and I have quite quickly got into having walks as recommended, while seeming to manage to get on with most of my normal chores and activities..

But that includes writing, and you might want to just "hang on" to read my "The Pen is Mightier than the Sword: And other Reflections of the Charlie Hebdo Killings".. When I came home from hospital I found a message on facebook about the whole freedom of expression, even to the exent of giving offence from the parent of an ex-pupil, who asked me what I think about it all..In the past she has said how much she enjoys my history posts on Facebook, as well as being one of the few other people who have read "my stuff"- notably a pamphlet c2001 entitled "The Re-Discovery of Social Man", some of which she subsequently used in her work as a development economist working for the World Bank... So I immediately started putting down some thoughts and then realized that this was going to need to be quite substantive.. and as my wife is anxious that I take my post-op period seriously enough, I feel that there is a window of opportunity, especially as I believe that the Charlie Hebdo killings were something of a 'wake up' call.

But if this is the end for now, I must thank you once again for all your friendship and support over the years, and wish you well in all your new ventures.

But one question? How do I contact you if I do manage to get a blog etc.

Cheers

Melvyn

Hi Melvyn,

Thanks for the reply and I´ve noticed the title of your latest essay, although not read it because it was stated there that it is still under review.

Thanks for your appreciative remarks regarding our friendship. To leave this place doesn´t have to mean the end of our friendship as well.

In case you´ve established your Blog, leave a short message with a link (copy and paste will do) on this message thread and I can go there by just one click on the link. That´s the easiest way how we can get in contact via your blog.

I know that you´re not fond of joyning other message boards and frankly there´s no need for you to do that anyway, as I trust that you´re engaged on facebook a lot of the time. As I told you in the past, I´m not fond of facebook and not of twitter either. So the only thing left is to get your blog (or alternatively your own homepage apart from facebook).

As a last thing to mention, I would really appreciate it if you would do listen to your wife. Operations like you had are not that easy and I know what I´m talking about (my late Father had some, my Uncle had some too recently). It all takes time and even if you feel you got through quite good and you can manage without strong medics, it´s all fine, but in the aftermath of such a surgery, you need to give you some rest to help yourself recovering.

Give my regards to your wife (although she barely might know about me).

I´ve find another message board to post, it´s (why isn´t that a wonder) again an Irish one. But there´s more politics dominating the discussions, less history threads and it´s not all concentrated on Irish affairs.

After CH has passed, the discussions of the day are about the Greek GE from yesterday.

Hopefully, we will meet on another place in the wwww and until then, have a good time.

Cheers,
Thomas

Thanks Thomas

Yes. As you may have realized I have found how to paste my stuff up on h2g2 again, and I will probably continue to use that, because it is quite an easy way to share things e.g. on Facebook, though very few people are interested in substantive comments there... Not really intended for people like me, but I encounter one or two...I have just responded to a South American friend who I fortunately first encountered on our allotments, where we got on well together as human beings... But he is a refugee from the Nicaraguan Civil War etc and quite a troubled individual, who every so often goes off in a huff... But in exchanges a few months ago another Facebook Friend a grandmother who is an old friend of an old Colleague and friend of mine, went into ecstasies on reading our lengthy exchanges dealing with Imperialism and the Amerindians...He has just hailed the Greek election result...Some of us have longer associations with Greece of civil war and military dictatorship etc.. Interesting times.

But as for my "Charlie Hebdo" piece I did post some.. But then decided to write it seriously and only paste it when it is ready.. I would hate for someone like the person for whom I am writing it, to read it and dismiss it prematurely..

Cheers

Melvyn

Hi Melvyn,

Just to let you know that I have, on second thoughts, decided to stay on h2g2 because at the other message board places, I´ve been surrounded by idiots who have just one interest which is either getting into arguments with one another or getting hysteric upon recent events. Looking back to the years from now and back to the BBC MBs, I´ve grown too old as to have any “joy” from such silly games.

I appreciate the quietness of this place, although it´s often a bit too quiet, but better to have that than this bickering.


“As you may have realized I have found how to paste my stuff up on h2g2 again, and I will probably continue to use that, because it is quite an easy way to share things e.g. on Face-book, though very few people are interested in substantive comments there...”

That is what I have gathered from facebook extracts other posters posted on the other mes-sage boards in Ireland.

“Not really intended for people like me, but I encounter one or two...I have just responded to a South American friend who I fortunately first encountered on our allotments, where we got on well together as human beings... But he is a refugee from the Nicaraguan Civil War etc and quite a troubled individual, who every so often goes off in a huff...”

Yes, “troubled individuals” refers to the condition of many people on message boards and apart from the few you might meet there who are different to the others, it´s like a “free world to hurl abuse” to others and I can´t exclude myself from admitting that sometimes I was not hesitating to “pay them back” the same way they had a go at me. But that is all too silly for me and it looks more immature the older I get.

This person from Nicaragua who lived through the civil war there might have some similar or even worse traumata like the people in Northern Ireland who lived through the troubles. It was the latter with whom I was dealing in the past two years. As much compassion and a try to understand them one can have, one can´t help them anyway as far as they are not prepared to help themselves. That is my experience with them.

“But in exchanges a few months ago another Facebook Friend a grandmother who is an old friend of an old Colleague and friend of mine, went into ecstasies on reading our lengthy ex-changes dealing with Imperialism and the Amerindians...”

I take it that you refer by that to the conversations you had with this Fracebook Friend himself.

“He has just hailed the Greek election result...Some of us have longer associations with Greece of civil war and military dictatorship etc.. Interesting times.”

Yesterday, on the BBC News they had an article about the very subject you mentioned which you could comment on. There were – as usual – the “anti-Germans” posting and spouting their comments as well. I did mention the British intervention during the Greek civil war in response to some silly poster coming up again with WWII and guess, my comment was taken to moderation by the BBC team, whereas my other comments appeared immediately on the board. I didn’t follow that specific comment of mine at all to see whether they had released it or not.


“But as for my "Charlie Hebdo" piece I did post some.. But then decided to write it seriously and only paste it when it is ready…”

Yes, CH (as they used to shortening it) was also a big deal of discussions on the last Irish message boards I just left for good.

What I think went wrong after this tragic terrorist assault on the French society is that after they had some “obvious” common sense and basis of solidarity emerging in the aftermath of that, CH came up again with a Mohammad caricature in their first edition after the killings. People interviewed on the streets (Muslims in particular) again found it offensive to them. That was a step unnecessary by CH, though in defiance towards the Islamic terrorists, but rebuffing those moderate minded Muslims who have nothing to do with them terrorists.

It was imo a giveaway of a chance to bring the moderates to the side of the whole French society, being against terrorism. The situation as I see it as an outsider, is very sensitive and I trust that you´ve noticed those “PEDIGA” movement in Germany, going on the streets pro-testing against the Muslims etc.. The amount of counter-demonstrations was growing and so the people participating in this as well in their numbers.

There seems to be no balance between the right of free speech, which others abused to pro-claim their “right to offend” and a considered sensibility taking the feelings of the other mod-erate minded into account to forge a common cross-religious resistance against radical Is-lamism.

I saw the actions and reactions in recent times as hysteric, the terrorist activities as a threat increasing in their severeness. It´s a complicated matter altogether and therefore it needs to be careful regarding not rebuffing people who are on one´s side against radical Islamism and terrorism by treating them bad and trample on their feelings.

“I would hate for someone like the person for whom I am writing it, to read it and dismiss it prematurely..”

As you know me, I will read that essay when it is ready. I´ve noticed the other one regarding the riots in the USA, but it wasn´t that much of my interest.

So, now as I´ve things settled again by re-considering where I stand where to stay, we can both wait until you get your blog. Btw, any news from the American who promised to help you getting that?

Cheers,
Thomas

Hi Thomas

This is almost an "all good news day".. for though I respect your freedom to go or stay.. It was a parting of some sadness, because I have valued and will continue to value our exchanges..

As for a lot of the points you have made..I tackle many of these themes in my CH piece, so I will desist from a long discourse here.. But I think that because of our mutual interest in conflict-resolution and reconciliation I think that we would both agree with a rather English approach that says "seek not to give offence"... With a language and culture as rich as that of Shakespeare, who is one of the most universally loved and respected authors we have the ideas and vocabulary, and the wisdom.. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.. So why go out of your way to associate yourself with Red Rose and White Rose conflicts that tore England apart..

And much of what I have been writing in what I have now decided to call part one-- has much to do with the fact that favoured quotes after the CH affair-- Cromwell's pen and Voltaire's defence "your" right to say things of which "I" disapprove-- have tended to ignore the fact that both these men had the support of the wealth-creating parts of their Societies.. As ever "money talks".. And Muslims are entitled to feel that lack of money is anathema to true Liberty and that France is an incredibly unequal society in an increasingly unequal world....

In fact the CH affair links some of the most disadvantaged sections of French Society, crushed into the huge "Social Housing" that of course is very evident in "East Germany", where such dormitory quarters were all part of State run economies where not-working was not an option or a fate...No doubt in Germany as elsewhere the terrible destruction of 39-45 gave way to a Brave New World statism, and perhaps there as in GB and F, as soon as the "native rooted" people could afford to get out of the big cities, back to the Heimat reality of the Nazi dream they have done so. It leaves immigrants and their descendents isolated in poverty, as the planned ecomic dream has stalled, with the old slum quarters, where "the masses" actually worked out how to get by unassisted, no longer existing, nor all the kinds of routes up out of poverty--- in any case many of them largely not available for people who have not much else than their Muslim faith to hold on to... The Western Routes up via sex, drugs, rock and roll, and professional sport, even domestic service.. Over 20 years ago I was teaching near Banglatown---the quarter in North London which is a major centre of Bangladeshi's...

You may recall that the Brandt Report (1980) identified that the most deprived part of the North South divide, was in fact an almost continuous band of extreme poverty running West-East from Muslim sub-Saharan West Africa out to Bangladesh, the poorest of all, not least because it was artificially created in 1947 as a homeland for the poor Muslims of the Indian sub-continent..Bangladesh had the lowest literacy and educational standards in the world, and Bangladeshi pupils were the ,lowest achieving in the UK.

And I chatted with my lovely B pupils, who hoped to do well. But I pointed out that they all knew that their sisters were being sent "back home" at 14, the first year of their exam courses, and that they would come back married or engaged to a young man, often a cousin.. So (a) their UK school education was compromised (b) as soon as feasible they would leave education altogether and live at home in Bangladeshi with their husband's language and level of education and knowledge... So that (a) not only would another generation of B families be denied a career woman, when the advance of women is about the only advance being made, boys and young men hardly holding their ground, but (b) also right from birth B boys would be denied immediate access to all the enlightenment and encouragement that I can already most visibly see taking effect on our granddaughter (who is off on a skiing holiday in the Alps with her parents this evening)

The French Muslim situation is not quite the same, but in the case of the Koachi brothers at least looks like being tied into the Algierian affair and the exodus of Muslim "Loyalists" who fought for "Algerie Francaise" before De Gaulle "sold the pass" to the Nationalists...Many Muslims were in the French forces or service and dared not stay.. But the fighting genes are bound to come out in some of the sons and grandsons..

But, as you say, there is a distinct lack of fairness about the people to whom it is necessary to be PC and refuse to offend.. I note that the Sherlock Actor has created a storm presumably over the Oscar nominations because he used the word "coloured" with reference to Black actors..

Funnily enough I had raised on facebook with an ex-pupil (Black- who is now a Radio DJ and who had posted on just how much she was looking forward to going to see the film Selma) whether or not they had allowed the script to use Martin Luther King's own words... She insisted that they had.. But Dr. King definitely used "coloured" and, having been immediately impressed with King from 1955 on first hearing, I was bound to think of my own sadness at discovering that my own pupils of West Indian roots could not tolerate the use of some of the words that Dr. King used, including the Latin word for black, derived from the common scientific practice of using Latin terms for the sake of universality.. You will understand me not using it here because even h2g2 may well block it, for fear of giving offence...

So, as I am writing at the moment, and as I was constantly challenged to refute during my teaching career amidst tenements and tower blocks of Lambeth it may well appear to Muslims that this is a most unequal world in which "There is one law for the rich and another for the poor"

Enough-- a flavour of what I have been writing and thinking about these last couple of weeks.

No word from the Yank.

Cheers till next time.

Melvyn

Thanks for your reply Melvyn and I´ll come back to that to respond in more detail tomorrow.

Have a nice evening and till tomorrow.

Cheers,
Thomas

Have a good evening too Thomas

Cheers for now

Melvyn

“This is almost an "all good news day"… for though I respect your freedom to go or stay.. It was a parting of some sadness, because I have valued and will continue to value our ex-changes…”

Thanks for that Melvyn. It´s not that easy to find alternative places and I´ll write a draft for my first entry on h2g2 about my experiences on various message boards in the past ten years.

“As for a lot of the points you have made… I tackle many of these themes in my CH piece, so I will desist from a long discourse here…”

As I said, I´ll read that when you tell me that it´s ready.

“But I think that because of our mutual interest in conflict-resolution and reconciliation I think that we would both agree with a rather English approach that says "seek not to give offence"... With a language and culture as rich as that of Shakespeare, who is one of the most universally loved and respected authors we have the ideas and vocabulary, and the wisdom.. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet… So why go out of your way to associate yourself with Red Rose and White Rose conflicts that tore England apart.”

I agree on the English approach with you, it´s as well my attitude.

“And much of what I have been writing in what I have now decided to call part one-- has much to do with the fact that favoured quotes after the CH affair-- Cromwell's pen and Voltaire's defence "your" right to say things of which "I" disapprove-- have tended to ignore the fact that both these men had the support of the wealth-creating parts of their Societies … As ever "money talks"… And Muslims are entitled to feel that lack of money is anathema to true Liberty and that France is an incredibly unequal society in an increasingly unequal world....”

That is an interesting aspect. I think that is has well got to do with the global world we live in.

“In fact the CH affair links some of the most disadvantaged sections of French Society, crushed into the huge "Social Housing" that of course is very evident in "East Germany", where such dormitory quarters were all part of State run economies where not-working was not an option or a fate...”

There are different types of social housing. The one first developed in the 1920s in urban areas during the Weimar Republic, the second during the Third Reich in the 1930s and the third during the GDR, the so called “Plattenbausiedlungen”. It´s not always been the case that this was done because of State run economies, the social aspect was above that to create modern standard living environments for the people.

“No doubt in Germany as elsewhere the terrible destruction of 39-45 gave way to a Brave New World statism, and perhaps there as in GB and F, as soon as the "native rooted" people could afford to get out of the big cities, back to the Heimat reality of the Nazi dream they have done so.”

Well, this ideal has been propagated by the Nazis but the dream of a nice house with a bit of an allotment is a bit older than that. But to realise that you have to set out new building areas, it can´t be done in dense places. It´s not always got to do with the “native rooted”, it´s got a bit more to do with an increase of income by better paid jobs. I´m not denying that those who got up the social ladder and find better housing left space to be occupied by the immigrants who also took the less paid jobs. There were still native rooted who remained at those places with the immigrants together.

“It leaves immigrants and their descendents isolated in poverty, as the planned ecomic dream has stalled, with the old slum quarters, where "the masses" actually worked out how to get by unassisted, no longer existing, nor all the kinds of routes up out of poverty--- in any case many of them largely not available for people who have not much else than their Muslim faith to hold on to... The Western Routes up via sex, drugs, rock and roll, and professional sport, even domestic service ... Over 20 years ago I was teaching near Banglatown---the quarter in North London which is a major centre of Bangladeshi's...

You may recall that the Brandt Report (1980) identified that the most deprived part of the North South divide, was in fact an almost continuous band of extreme poverty running West-East from Muslim sub-Saharan West Africa out to Bangladesh, the poorest of all, not least because it was artificially created in 1947 as a homeland for the poor Muslims of the Indian sub-continent. Bangladesh had the lowest literacy and educational standards in the world, and Bangladeshi pupils were the lowest achieving in the UK.”

I don´t know that much about the Bangladeshi and I don´t recall much about the Brandt Report. I just know that Bangladesh was at the time of British India´s partition called something like “East Pakistan”.

“And I chatted with my lovely B pupils, who hoped to do well. But I pointed out that they all knew that their sisters were being sent "back home" at 14, the first year of their exam courses, and that they would come back married or engaged to a young man, often a cousin.. So (a) their UK school education was compromised (b) as soon as feasible they would leave education altogether and live at home in Bangladeshi with their husband's language and level of education and knowledge... So that (a) not only would another generation of B families be denied a career woman, when the advance of women is about the only advance being made, boys and young men hardly holding their ground, but (b) also right from birth B boys would be denied immediate access to all the enlightenment and encouragement that I can already most visibly see taking effect on our granddaughter (who is off on a skiing holiday in the Alps with her parents this evening)”

That is a good example for circumstances where the differences between the cultures meet and have essential effects on people´s lives.

“The French Muslim situation is not quite the same, but in the case of the Koachi brothers at least looks like being tied into the Algierian affair and the exodus of Muslim "Loyalists" who fought for "Algerie Francaise" before De Gaulle "sold the pass" to the Nationalists...Many Muslims were in the French forces or service and dared not stay ... But the fighting genes are bound to come out in some of the sons and grandsons ... “

I haven´t noticed anything related to what you said in the news reports. What one gets from the news is that ISIS recruits their members from different parts of the Muslim society. Not less of them who joined ISIS are from middle class or higher backgrounds, good educated and even more fanaticized. One wonders about the reasons for them to join a terrorist organisation.

“But, as you say, there is a distinct lack of fairness about the people to whom it is necessary to be PC and refuse to offend ... I note that the Sherlock Actor has created a storm presumably over the Oscar nominations because he used the word "coloured" with reference to Black actors... .”

This lack of fairness might be as well a “reaction” towards PC, but what is more important to me is the lack of humanity. I´ve noticed the row about Cumberbatch´s comment but didn´t read anything in detail about it.

“Funnily enough I had raised on facebook with an ex-pupil (Black- who is now a Radio DJ and who had posted on just how much she was looking forward to going to see the film Selma) whether or not they had allowed the script to use Martin Luther King's own words... She insisted that they had ... But Dr. King definitely used "coloured" and, having been immediately impressed with King from 1955 on first hearing, I was bound to think of my own sadness at discovering that my own pupils of West Indian roots could not tolerate the use of some of the words that Dr. King used, including the Latin word for black, derived from the common scien-tific practice of using Latin terms for the sake of universality.. You will understand me not using it here because even h2g2 may well block it, for fear of giving offence...”

As you see, times are changing and when it comes to display expressions in the origin of the time concerned, the PC goes beyond their means. I´ll as well go the cinema when that film is on, for my interest in Dr. King. I don´t know yet when.

“So, as I am writing at the moment, and as I was constantly challenged to refute during my teaching career amidst tenements and tower blocks of Lambeth it may well appear to Muslims that this is a most unequal world in which "There is one law for the rich and another for the poor"

As you know yourself, this has always been that way because those who can afford to pay a good solicitor or barrister have better chances to get their “right” than those who can´t.

“No word from the Yank.”

I feared so. What are you going to do now? It seems that your Facebook account serves your needs in conversations with people and that this place is the right one for your – let me put that way - “archive” where you can store your essays. If you are fine with that it´d be no bother to go after him to get your blog.

From what I´ve seen on blogs, there are different types of them. It´s a matter of what you make of that by yourself, i.e. whether it should be a blog where people can comment on a thread to a topic or just for your own writings. I´m no expert on such things, what I´ve noticed is that to create an own website, you´d have to buy a domain and it might work the same way for creating a blog. Maybe it´s because of buying a domain that you´ve got no answer from the American, but if that is the case it´s a bit cheap of him not to tell you.

Maybe you might ask some of your ex-pupils you´re in touch with about such things and see whether they can come up with some further advice.

Cheers,
Thomas

Hi Thomas

Thanks for the replies...Much I could say about the roots of the French and UK Muslim populations.. but it may come in my CH pieces.. But in terms of History I think that the German experience was markedly different because of German ties with Turkey during the Second Reich before 1914.. Though many of the "Young Turks" seem to have been schooled in France, it was Germany that became an ally of a Turkey that sought to modernise, and made big strides before the First World War Berlin to Baghdad Railway and German Army training plus the kind of units that the USA/UK have left in Iraq and Afghanistan..,

And crucially c1922 in the Revolution of Kemal Attaturk Turkey was turned into a "modern" secular state on the French model and renounced the Khalifate, the leadership of Islam.. So the leading and most modernised Islamic State gave up, leaving the "throne" free for others, which goes to the heart of these new khalifate.. No-one "is in charge"... But it also means that when the Turkish workers flooded into post-war Germany to help out in the "economic miracle", though there were problems enough (houses burned out with all the residents)the differences between Turk and German were not like those between the French and the North African Muslims in the last 50 or so years..

As for German block tenements I saw quite a bit of them when I took a school party to Berlin c1994, for we were based for the evenings in old East Berlin, with, as happened in this scheme, the pupils staying with German hosts in order to learn language and culture, while we and our guide visited things during the day.. One thing perhaps I would say now is that, perhaps because of the previous devastation (and perhaps consequences) the large communist blocks did seem to be spaced out with more chance of people feeling that there was a genuine communal area that they could feel was part of their home.

Melvyn

Hi Melvyn,

I´ll post my reply on the other thread I´ve started on my re-registering to continue the conversation there.

Cheers,
Thomas