h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Peanut

I remembered that I have to copy and paste the post that I want to reply to- and then delete it before I post. I

I noted Pastey's response- but I had also noted that you instigated that conversation- and therefore had some 'seignoral' rights.

As for the "new phase": I believe that we are, however long it lasts, and it may well throw up more problems for those too 'established' and set in their ways to really take advantage of the positives that counter-balance the negatives.. I suspected this and both Wimbledon and the recent Test Match have confirmed this- because of the extra vitality that is in Nature at this moment. Young (or young at heart) people prepared to just 'go with the flow' and tap into the special energy played a really important part. New wine and old skins.. I just hope that we manage the 'energy' better than we did 100 years ago, when the first part of 1914 seemed like the dawn of a Brave New World, as the Diaghelev Ballet brought its brilliant programmes of the Paris 1913 season (including "The Rite of Spring' which has had a number of centenary outings this year) only for the Assassination at Sarajevo to set in motion dynamics that the 'establishments' of the Great Powers could neither handle nor truly comprehend, plunging 'us' all into World War to great popular rejoicing. Perhaps starting a war is the ultimate sign of man's basically optimistic spirit.

Cass

Hi Cass


It is not about 'rights', it is about the spirit of things and the dynamics of something, not so tangible as rights but as meaningful.

Willem might feel differently about that conversation, I can't tell and won't know till later on, when I do, I will respond to that, or perhaps we'll just carry on as we were

either way, you asked me how I felt and I said honestly. I knew you would be understanding and respectful of how I felt and had all faith that we could have that conversation between ourselves because it is well within our capabilities to do so, as the people we are and without the necessity of having to fall back on any h2g2 rules and a bit

Peanut

Hi Peanut

I did put my "seignoral rights" in quotation marks to show that I was responding to Pastey's assertion that the person starting a thread has some additional right to shape it to some extent according to the h2g2 rule book..

And I was really only 'butting in', which is not really helpful, anyway- very much one more a 'stranger' on h2g2. Anyone actually joining a conversation needs to follow the conversation a bit before getting some notion of whether he/she has anything constructive to contribute.

Regards

Cass

Hi Cass

I really think we are beginning to labour a point now, you didn't butt in, you stepped in, that wasn't unreasonable in the slightest, you then very reasonably and graciously stepped out on learning how I felt and I appreciated that

I'm irked that Pastey felt he had to step in with 'rules' which I have taken up with him, as that should be

Don't feel a stranger, we are all learning to communicate, and learning through communicating and are the better for it,

mostly


h2g2 does take a while to get the hang of, I'm not claiming to being any font of wisdom or anything because I am not,

not a stranger, still an outsider, except for those threads that I regularly participate in, which I can count on one hand, as much as I would like to think that I am part of a wider community, I know I have found a comfortable and worthwhile niche, which is meaningful to me and hopefully has some meaning to those I am in close proximity too

but further than that I have no reach


munches on thank you,

best wishes

Peanut

'we' are not a labouring a point, it is me

*grabs another bit of and steps back*

Hi Peanut

Well whenever I put quotation marks it is an acceptance that some people might wish to see it that way. I am fully aware that some people feel that I am far too ready to make the first move, and sometimes be "the fool that rushes in where angels fear to tread".. But when I do not- like last week in Tesco when I felt that I saw an old pupil from the 1970s and was torn over whether or not to approach this Mum with two teenage girls- I feel worse over not having rushed in, than I do when I blunder in and find out that I was wrong.

I ended up watching "Pride and Prejudice" on Drama yet again. I think it is nice to be able to be someone like Mr. Bingley who tries to find the good of everyone and to look for the best in every situation.

Off to water my allotment- hoping that there is a bit more water pressure than last night.

Cass

Hi Cass

Do you think that we have an appetite for another world war

As I look around the world now I see more a rolling programme of revolution and civil war although the rate of that spread seems to have halted, or ground to a horrible bloody stalemate as in Syria

If tinderboxes are anywhere then Syria is a possibility if Israel gets more leery and the situation with Iran is always on the back burner

I would consider a European War with itself as inconceivable although it is more fractured than it has been for many a year, I still don't see countries fighting externally, the tendency seems to be to implode rather than explode

As for new energy, I'm not sure about that either, still too suppressed by the weight of austerity once we pull out of it for couple of years then maybe there will be the space for new ideas and ideals to flourish

Did your water pressure hold up yesterday?

and scones, I just fancy a cream tea today

Peanut

Hi Peanut

Well I am not sure that there was "an appetite" for world war either in 1914 or 1939- just a sense that things could not go on the way that they were. But we have lost faith with old belief systems. Either the 'greater good' faith in religions of conflict like Christianity and Islam, or the belief Life being shaped by a Darwinian "Struggle for the Survival of the Fittest". I mentioned Leonard Cheshire on that irksome thread. You may know that Cheshire was one of Britain's greatest bomber pilots during the 2ww, and flew as an RAF observer on the Nagasaki mission- a plane that was following to observe the impact of the atomic bomb. After years of bombing missions over Europe his first emotions were those of elation at the mission having been able to hit the target with a "Big Gun".. It was only when he was sent on a mission to Berlin and flew over the rubble of the great cities of Germany, and spent some time seeing what his bombing had meant on the ground, that he began a spiritual journey which took him back (historically speaking) to the RC Church and a life dedicated to good works running hospices that care for the elderly and terminally ill. He endedup marrying Sue Ryder who was on a similar mission, and the Cheshire-Ryder homes are now spread over much of "English-speaking world".

But it has often been the case that the English have little appetite for war. This was the case a thousand years ago when a Europe that seemed peaceful and prosperous found itself attacked by four great invading forces. England was "unready" and was conquered by the Vikings c1016, only for the half-Viking King Harold to be beaten in battle by William the Conqueror, also of "the blood of the Vikings", which Western Europe managed to enlist into Christian Civilization and use the great military potential of the Christianised Vikings to defeat (a) the Saracens, and (b) the Turks, and (c) to help to bring the peoples who flooded down in a line from the Eastern Baltic to the Balkans, who were variously converted to Greek Orthodox or Roman Catholic Christianity and became increasingly European.

The question is whether Europe would fight such invaders if attacked, and defend the lifestyle which , in spite of 'austerity' is pretty privileged compared to most places on Earth.

Off to water the allotment soon.. and yes the pressure was better last night.. A good excuse to just 'chill out' for an hour.

Cass

Ps. Will we get Pastey on this thread? I think it has been you me and briefly Thomas B.

(sweat- not tears)

I was expecting to hear about sightings of hedgehogs. I saw one squashed one in London recently, but that's all :sad:

Anyway with regard to having a stomach for war ... isn't that why they send young males to war? Of course then there families have to agree with it etc. How will drone warfare change peoples views on warfare? An interesting documentary film on Don McCullin (so called legendary war photographer) indicates that after the Vietnam war the US & other governments learnt about controlling the media and controlling the images. Don McCullin was barred from covering the Falklands war etc. He also comments on the "death of truth" in war reporting when The Times / Sunday Times was sold off to Rupert Murdoch (our sponsors don't want to see dead civilians etc next to their products they are trying to sell).

Stone Art

But which "young males" get sent to war- especially when there is no National Conscription, when in theory at least everyone does military service. This week the commemoration of the Korean War reminded us all that the British units there were doing National Service. But Western Forces these days (even Territorials) represent more of a long-term investment and a different Capital/Labour ratio. Poverty, however, has always been a good recruiting sergeant, since the Dutch pioneered the modern Scientific and Technological Army in the early Seventeenth Century, with one Dutch Protestant regiment being manned by a (rare) Protestant clan from the Scottish Highlands: and Scotland and Ireland remained great recruiting grounds for the British Army- with even men from the Irish Free State volunteering to fight in the British forces against Nazism- to be villified in the Irish Republic for most of their lives. [Would an Independent Scotand allow the Highland Regiments to carry on ? Would Scottish regiments be allowed to fight as part of a British Army in opposition to Scottish Foreign Policy]

I have not seen this week's documentary about the terrible tithe of suicides amongst ex-soldiers after service in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, but, in addition to the PTSD I believe that the British Services still really target those regions that have been famous for producing fighting men- often because they have grown up in regions of poverty, unemployment and no prospects- and in these 'days of austerity' many of these must be really hard to come back to.

I used to show pupils a documentary called something like "Wasteland" which featured the housing left around a closed down Steel Mill- where all was 'desolation and despair, and the kids in school knew that they either would have to leave to 'have a life' or they settled down to look after pigeons for life- on benefits. That must be pretty hard, especially because military life is all laid on and organised for you, so personal initiative is often only a matter of amusing yourself 'off duty'.

My elder brother did 12 years in the RAF, as an electrician, and, when he knew that he was coming out, he volunteered to get up from the card-school and work on every jet that came in, since the 'set-up' was created with War conditions in mind [ war-damage and stress to the aircraft] and an imperative to get it back in the air as soon as possible. But when you have worked under press of War, it must be quite hard to adjust to peace.

That's my excuse any way.

Cass

Hi Stone Aart

The hedgehogs still get a look in although I am not seeing them so regulary this year

Last year they were in every night and holding wooing parties

There is chap that I sometimes talk to, has a booming voice, I mentioned hedgehogs and apparently they have been wooing in his garden.

He kept on saying how the flood lights kept coming on and he thought some one was in the garden but 'NO IT WAS HEDGEHOGS 'DOING IT' I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A THING,I TELL YOU'

This went on for a while, and was repeated quite often, it wasn't so much he had never seen hedgehog 'doing it' but was perplexed that they did. I'm not sure how he thought they did reproduce

Anyway it gave several people in earshot a chuckle

Hi Peanut, I live in an urbanised area (I suppose most of us do), but I have noticed there are just not that many if any hedgehogs around compared to when I was younger. I think it must be a combination of things, I don't think "climate change" has much to do with it - unlike what is said in this report, I think it is increased vehicle use, increased use of chemicals and the persistence of those chemicals in the environment, decreased "green" spaces within the urban environment (call this natural refuges), over management of urban green spaces (designed for urbanite leisure etc) & water management. Insects are a key component in the food chain and these are in decline too in urban regions. Anyway it is good to know there are still areas where hedgehogs are still able to get on

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/29/hedgehog-population-dramatic-decline

Ps I feel sorry for this persons hedgehogs ... with their every move a potential trigger of his garden searchlights ... and yes I agree he doesn't seem to be the brightest spark :{

Hi Cass: people joining the army nowadays tend to be young males who need work and who want to do "serve" for "their nation". There are age limits as to who can apply. I think it is well known that highly impressionable young males with a lot of pent-up energy and wanting to gain new experiences are the ones that are more easily manipulated into regimented servitude and then shipped out with their killing toys. It is usually the older male with more experiences who is more able to reflect on the bigger picture etc and perhaps is less malleable to suit political and military needs. Of course it is difficult to generalise but many of todays wars are associated with controlling resources and accessing markets etc.
http://www.army.mod.uk/join/20145.aspx

#290

Hi Cass, you raise some interesting points: with regard to suicides and post traumatic stress - it seems to me you are raising the possibility that the suicides may not be mainly due to post traumatic stress - but that another key factor is the ability of the ex-soldier to adapt back into society. As you mentioned in the army their lives are organised for them, they are part of a system that takes care of their physical needs (feeding, sleeping, doing) and their social needs (part of a "brotherhood", surrounded by a group of similarly aged people, with father figures drill masters and captains etc) and gives them purpose (they don't have to think much for themselves) and makes them feel what they are doing is needed and is of value.

When they leave the army and find themselves back into maybe the impoverished original environment they had left ... they are no longer part of a system that takes care of their physical and social needs etc. This they have to do and learn to do all for themselves. Maybe the difficulty of doing this is a bigger factor than PTSD contributing to suicides?

Hi Stone Art

Of course wars have always been about controlling assets to a greater or lesser extent. Historians see an historical progression in even-pre Ancient times from military raids to loot from other people evolving into peaceful trade, once the military investment of both sides has reached something like a Cold War.. War and other adventures have always needed to pay their way. Adventures like the tragedy of the Channel Swimmer who died while raising money for charity, or those explorers/record breakers who make a TV programme in order to fund their expedition. Ancient Greeks who set out to explore the world carried Greek wine in Greek pottery convinced that if they found a new market it would pay for the adventure..

But what is interesting is this appeal of "the adventurous life" (that has been traditionally more male than female) with the idea that somehow you can put things off into such future time that the challenges of the hour will need something dramatic and then "cometh the hour" all of a sudden even the "scum of the Earth" can redeem themselves and suddenly find fame and fortune. As Niall Ferguson described in his book "Empire" the British Empire was disproportionately created by Scots people, not least because Adam Smith wrote that Scotland and the Scots were materially poor, but they had some superiorities that would allow them to achieve great things in places like England where the potential for "The Wealth of Nations" was so much greater. It will be interesting to see whether the Scots will vote for independence and finally focussing on really taking up the challenge of creating the Wealth of their own Homeland, which they value as an untamed wilderness.

By the way the Hedgehogs theme came up because we had already established that Peanut had them in her garden down in Somerset, while my wife always dreams of enticing some to make their home in our garden in Croydon and feast on our slugs and snails.

Cass

Stone Aart

As usual I was to some extent mining my own experience. My brother went into the RAF, but I went into teaching and deliberately to the challenge of the Inner City, where I found myself for 20+ years in the vicinity of what was locally called "The Front Line" in Brixton. Eventually I suffered from 'burn out' and took a career break, before going back into teaching. After 37 years of teaching and learning, following on naturally from years of learning, study and the challenges of the examination system, retirement has been quite a challenge and quite depressing, as I feel myself to some degree 'back where I all started' and thought that I had left behind.

Cass

Did you do any teaching in or around Croydon?

Hi Stone Aart

Mostly central/southern Lambeth- But I spent five happy years at Lanfranc- initially the Boys Sec. Mod then the mixed "High" (1969-74) and then after having been posted from Lambeth to Islington c1988 (commuting there for 4 terms) I decided to resign and consider a life-change. Spent a term tackling DIY backlog, and then managed to get a permanent job in a Girls Private School back in Lambeth- and waiting for Sept I had a one-term short-term contract at Sir Thomas More School in Purley, another largely happy experience.

Cass

Stone Aart

Going back to your post 295

I have been very much aware of my brother's happy experience, really staying in many ways much closer to our roots- doing an engineering apprenticeship when our Dad was a very capable amatuer engineer who appeared on TV Inventors Club, and marrying an Oxfordshire village girl, when our Mum came from the Cotswolds.

My sister-in-law is a terrific person as solid, commonsensical and firmly rooted in a happy family as you could wish. "I was one of nine children, and Mum took the rod to all of us when needed it. Never stopped us from loving her." When he came out of the RAF they moved to a large council estate near her home village, but I think that having spent years in RAF accommodation they knew that "it takes all sorts" and they 'did their own thing'. By this time they had three daughters and a house that was always full of fun.

Soon enough my brother was working at home assembling really complex,one-off circuitry- like that for the first broadcasting of the Houses of Parliament. He would get up in time to see his girls off to school, take his breakfast to the large desk in his through lounge and work-away listening his favourite pop-jazz on headphones. At the end of the school day, he would pack up and go down to meet his daughters from school and go with them to the school swimming pool. "No point earning enough to put myself into a higher tax bracket"- he would say. The twins eventually became competitive synchronized swimmers and their older sister has worked as a schools swimming instructor for the last 20 years. In time they all married and settled nearby, and when grandchildren arrived they saw them almost every day of their lives..

Of course he had not seen military action, and fast-tracked his overseas service by accepting a posting to Bahrain which counted double because of the heat and humidity: But I know of few people whose home conditions were so "homely" and "happy". Perhaps that was his undoing because he finally decided to 'kick smoking' and get healthy when he was 64, and he died suddenly of a stroke a few weeks before his 65th birthday- as my eldest niece who phoned me with the news said "Fit as a fiddle right to the end."

But the 'ghosts of yesterday' were never too far away. To some extent it is probably true that people need to feel driven in order to embrace the military life.

Cass