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Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 11, 2011
Thomas B
Thank you for your post.. Though my post was very personal I thought that it was worth making clear the standpoint that has informed my view of the French and therefore the English.. Whenever I read authors I am usually aware of how their ideas are shaped by their "roots" and personal circumstances, and therefore what they are trying to achieve.
I actually wrote in effect a book on this Anglo-French relationship five years ago that I called "Cock and Bull Stories".
As for your post- perhaps the shopping story that you should be aware of, though hopefully less so with the passing years, was the one told me by a French camper at least 20 years ago.
He was recommending Greece as a place to holiday, and told me of a lovely conversation that he was having with his Greek butcher. While they were talking a German woman came in, and the butcher served her. Then they carried on chatting for a while. Eventually good things come to an end. The French man asked "How much" for his meat. The butcher said nothing. The French man insisted and insisted, not wishing to ruin the butcher. Eventually the butcher said:" Well I made that German lady pay for your meat."
It is not unlike a story written down by Viscount Palmerston. The English King was travelling through Holland, and saw one of his staff arguing with a landlord. He went over and was told "Your majesty! He is demanding a ridiculous price for eggs."
The King turned to the man. "Why? Are eggs scarce around here?"
"No. Your Majesty. But Kings are."
Regards
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 11, 2011
Thomas
Thanks for you post
Various things to respond to:
(a) Publishing- Well. I sent off letters to ten publishers and then started arming myself mentally against rejection. So far one publishing house has returned my letter and introduction stating that as a matter of policy they do not consider anything that has not been filtered through an agent. I have thought of immediately sending that material to an agent. But I will wait for some more rejections. I was looking at my stack of rejection letters, and one particular publishers expressed a strong personal interest in things I had completed by 2005, but considered them too personal and quirky for their house. I think that "Towards a View of History For Our Own Times" is in some ways much more mainstream and I have edited out the "I" elements. I think, moreover, that it is an attempt to tackle general questions of the moment using historical references, material and analyses.
Actually almost the event of the week came a few days ago. As I believe that I may be coming to the end of a journey through history, I have become almost obsessed by possibly the most important conversation that I have had in my life. It happened in 1966 when I was returning from Dijon and found an attractive Eurasian woman in my train compartment at Dover. I am convinced that this was the writer Han Suyin, whose work I discovered much later, and whose "China. History/Autobiography" is one of the greatest works I have read..At one point in our conversation she said that I had a true sense of history. Part of my current interest is that the Film Channel is showing on and off the Hollywood film that she referred to, and which like the novel on which it was based, I did not know- though as a singer I knew the song "Love is a many splendoured thing."
In an idle moment I Googled her to find out her subsequent life story, and was astonished to find that she is still alive and has been living under her last married name in Lausanne. As she was born in 1917 she is very elderly, but I would love to write to her and thank her for that crucial meeting that helped to open the world to me in a very real way. This morning I have drafted a letter to send to my sister-in-law who lives not far from Lausanne just in case an address can be found in. I believe from the web-site of an enthusiast that she has no telephone, TV or computer.
The publishing connection was that on that web page there were Google adverts including a firm that will produce lovely editions of your book for c$500..But I have heard of cheaper schemes. Generally, however, such publishing here tends to be labelled "vanity publishing".. It is nice to see your ideas in print- but only really on the assumption that they are going to be read.
(b) Cock and Bull Stories includes various elements including (a)how England and France first moved from being habitual enemies to friends (b) insights as to how the French have been taught to see themselves in the past as exemplified by a book of 20+ Folk Stories from my wife's native Burgundy that I have summarised in translaition and put in their historical context, and (c) how the French tend to see themselves in this post-war world using French writers like the Historian Henri Amouroux, the writers Andre Gide and Albert Camus, and the popularity in France of the work of an Oxford Professor of French History.
(c) Holidays- No, The butcher was Greek- I don't think a French butcher would make such a gift, even if he did over-charge the Germans. But my wife loves camping. In fact the letter that I have drafted to my sister-in-law broaches this idea of mine that her family, and then ours, had a very strange work/life balance. As teacher's families term time was all school and education, and the holidays were for getting away from it all and really "living". We now have a house in France, and almost certainly do not camp enough.
What this meant was that, as opposed to my brother's family, where my sister-in-law_one of nine children herself- took it for granted that her grown up children, husbands and their own children would just roll up sometime for Saturday tea just as a simple and natural thing to do, we have to plan weeks ahead to snatch a couple of hours with our children- and have no grandchildren- as yet. Not long ago we wondered whether our son and daughter will keep in touch at all when we are dead, or keep in touch with their cousins in Switzerland, France etc.
Regarding other countries we have camped in Italy and Spain- but only briefly, and I really miss England, and in fact the whole of the British Isles. Ireland is one of the wish list places.. But then my grandfather was born in India-- which becomes another obsession from time to time.
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 11, 2011
Thomas
Yes. I do live in South London.. But, famously for English people, the true England is the English countryside.
London has been an interface with the wider world..and as I have said many times living in London since 1967 has meant (in todays images from Japan) that I have made a journey without having to move, since the flood tide of life has flowed through my world carrying with it its flotsam and jetsom of humanity, much of it searching for "English Peace"..
But rather like religious people, who believe that God is everywhere, like to go to a "House of God" dedicated to their values, so a lover of English Peace loves to just from time to time be totally enveloped by it.
Till next week
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 17, 2011
Thomas
I see we are both active on the MB once more.. But I came back to here. I thought you might be interested in my first proper rejection letter yesterday:
"I'm afraid, while clearly interesting and erudite, your project wouldn't be a natural fit for the Yale list and I fear we would struggle to market it effectively."
Usual kind of response I have received over the years... But when I was explaing my alterative ideas to pupils by 1969 I was comparing myself to Columbus who spent years in vain trying to get support for his new direction.. And of course most people forget that he died a failure.
Regards
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 17, 2011
Thomas
Thanks for that... I have finally managed to get my wife's attention for two minutes to look at the use of English in that letter.. You may have noticed the use of conversational abbreviations.. And the next sentence went on "I am sorry to be disappointing.." which to my mind is incorrect-- unless she really means that she is a disappointing person generally.
I am clearly not using "current English" ..
As for marketing I fully understand that being an unknown "brand" makes the task very daunting for a publishers.. There is probably a German equivalent for the English wisdom "It is not 'what you know' but 'who you know' that counts."
Have a good day.
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 17, 2011
Thomas
I do not let such things ruin my day.. I am afraid I understand the rejection too well... But then perhaps I have made too much of stiff-upper-lippism..
But "the journey goes on".. Two down eight to go. Before then I must start approaching agents-- or just go about becoming "marketable" in another way.
Regards
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 17, 2011
Thomas
Thanks. As ever your interest and support is really appreciated..
By the way we are now getting towards "take off " mode. We are of to our house in France next Wednesday. The weather here is nice and spring like and it is making us look forward to that rather more than when it was still cold and wet. We have just had a bumper version of our weekly shopping expedition.
Cheers
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 18, 2011
Hi Thomas
A nice thought toasting St. Patrick's day..You may not be aware of the rugby significance. The English team are to play Ireland on the St.Patrick's Day Saturday when each side will be trying to "spoil the others party"- but hopefully in the nicest way. Naturally- like Scotland last week-end who raised their game c300% to play England, the Irish will be pretty desperate to beat England: all the more so because they felt that they were robbed last week against Wales.
There is further historic significance in that this will be the first En v Ire game in the new Irish Rugby stadium at the redeveloped Landsown Road. When the old stadium was knocked down a few years ago the Irish took the very significant step of inviting the English to play in Croke Park. You may have read about the attrocity during "The Troubles" of the twenties when British troops took an armoured car into Croke Park and machine-gunned some of the Irish people there.
This only served to enshrine the significance of Croke Park as a stadium for exclusively Gaelic sports- hence none of those international sports that Britain gave to the world that it might sportingly play together.
But doing your own thing on your own only takes you so far. With Lansdown Road ruled out the fact that Croke Park was probably the most magnificent stadium in Ireland, with an 80,000 capacity, made it appropriate to show Ireland to the world through TV, and to house the expanding fan-base of Irish rugby. It moreover seemed to be an appropriate gesture of peace and reconciliation.
Unfortunately to my mind the coach of the English team was an ex-history teacher, and had moreover spent some time in the coaching of the Irish team previously. He was therefore very much aware of the history that was about to be made, and took his squad to Ireland early enough to give them a guided tour of key sites of Irish history, and all the tragedies for which the Irish had held the English accountable.
It reminded me that a few days before England beat South Africa at Twickenham for the first time in living memory, our daughter had seen the SA squad touring Oxford University. I recalled that Nick Mallett (now the Italian coach)had been a superb Oxford rugby blue, and he was showing his "boys" Oxford. So much history! And when they ran out onto Twickenham- the hallowed turf of international rugby- they had to play not only the English team, but the whole of the history behind England.
The same thing happened when the English team ran out on to Croke Park. Sometimes nothing is more powerful than silence. The English anthem was played in Croke Park, and was sung by the English supporters. The thought of the massive restraint of the Irish crowd- most of the 80,000 still brings tears to my eyes. The common mind was palpable. The Irish I believe are famed for their hospitality: and the English were there by invitation this time. It was for the Irish to show that they were prepared to be hosts even here. And then in full national pride they let it all out in roaring the Irish Anthem.
The players knew their role. Rugby is a "battle": and the Irish players knew their role, which was to use sport to finally allow all the anger and violence, hatred and negativity to be channelled away in a national catharsis. But, by the same token, with that build up to some extant the weight of history argued that the English players suddenly thrust into the heart of a history that most of them did not really know were not there to fight back with all their might. They played to some extent like "lambs to the slaughter".
Tomorrow will be less historic: and Ireland have already lost to France in this new Aviva Stadium. But England is another matter. France, like Italy, is something of a guest in this Six Nations- four of which are British. England look most likely to end up as Champions this year, unless Ireland can inflict a very heavy defeat; and if England win they will have achieved a Grand Slam, for the first time since they went on from a Grand Slam to win the Rugby World Cup in 2003.. And this is a Grand Slam Year.
The absence of Germans from the rugby world is interesting.. And I would not have bothered to write all this if it were not for your interest in Ireland.
By the way we drive to Burgundy.
Regards
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 18, 2011
Thomas
Thanks for that.. I enjoyed your account of the film-- and its ending. It reminds me that you commented not long ago on the fact that the English tend to see the Germans as "winners" in the sporting field. But I think that prior to the current state of rugby it might not have appealed to German ideals- again viewed by an Englishman who knows France much better than Germany.
I see rugby as the particular invention of Thomas Arnold's Rugby School at a time when Arnold led the way in an educational revolution bringing together the boys who were to be the ruling elite of the new Great Britain. There were at least 4 "racial" types- Irish,Welsh, Scots, and English- and the game uniquely brought out the physical advantage of each one, and moreover allowed for any latent aggressions from history to be harmlessly dissipated in the on-the- pitch violence.
[I can still remember having the chance in a game at university to tackle the young man who was one of my many rivals for the affection of a girl of German extraction. He saw me coming with such intent that he froze still, so instead of hitting him where I expected him to be he was some yards further back and I just got him around the ankles.]
What I see of German football teams is that, contrary to rugby, the whole eleven players have a very similar kind of physique- around at least 1.90-2.10 tall. Of course, as in so many ways, the Nazis pushed to an extreme a German tendency. But there were/are those who- while disapproving of Nazi politics and intentions- also saw that the whole "Strength Through Joy" cult of personal fitness towards a kind of evolutionary ideal had its positive sides.
Fortunately here to Burgundy is not 1,000 kms.. And at such times I remember that my father was a long-distance lorry-driver.. But as we do this now 4 times a year, one of our problems is that while my wife is busy planning complicated things for this house and garden, and our house, garden and family in France (that usually means a huge car-loading session) I try to prepare myself for a hard-days driving in which lives are at risk-ours and others, for I am always aware that a car is a pontentially lethal weapon.
Cass
Can Labour Go Back to a Future
CASSEROLEON Posted Mar 18, 2011
Thomas
Sadly the importance of money in rugby union is less than 20 years old..Of course in my childhood it was still the game of the elite/establishment taught in the public schools and the grammar schools that tried to widen access to that kind of academic education. Hence my brother, a very talented sportsman, played football and had offers to be a professional.
People who were taught rugby at school used to have careers that enabled them to afford leisure sport, and of course as rugby was peopled by "the same"- leisure contacts were often useful professional ones as well [Not quite as much as golf perhaps]
But rugby was attractive in some of the industrial areas and the prosperous Victorian working class, especially the coal miners- the Victorian working class aristocracy. In fact playing sport as a way of earning a bit of extra cash had a long tradition in Scotland, and probably the Scots brought this idea too with them to the great industrial towns, where people were desperate for a bit of entertainment as working hours reduced and the week-end was created.
So in the 1870's some working class rugby teams started to go commercial with a small c. The English Rugby Football Union insisted that the sport was to be played between amateurs, and excluded them. So they set up their own Rugby League, and developed the 13 man version of the game, with much fewer of the "set-pieces" that break up the momentum of the Union game.
Professionalism only came formally into Rugby Union just over ten years ago, and I am not sure that it has been true progress. It is true that players now have the time to train full-time, and so they are bigger and stronger, and people have been recruited from all over the world into both club and "national" teams. Personally I think that Society loses something. In the first post-war Olympics held in London British competitors were often still at the "day-job" in the morning when they were competing in the afternoon. So they showed what ordinary people could achieve, which to my mind is really the point of sport. What I could see as a teacher was boys who were football made who told me that they did not need any education because their only dream was to be a professional footballer, and earn enough money in a short playing career to set them up for life.
Two other moans from a grumpy old man:
(a) Now that people only play sport in this global age, sports no longer really have seasons, and rest-and recuperation period. Living out of suitcases in hotels is not really a life, and I refuse to subscribe to Sports Channels which offer me a constant diet of rugby and cricket matches that have often ceased to have any "historical" significance.. Sportsmen are now mere entertainers.
(b) In rugby there has been an equivalent of Blitzkrieg, or perhaps more accurately the Schlieffen Plan- because the vital element in Blitzkrieg was quickness and surprise. On average rugby players are possibly almost twice the size of players of 30 years ago. But the pitch is the same size, so the amount of "lebensraum" is proportionately reduced. Matches are too often like the Western Front- a kind of stalemate, because the clever, fast, intelligent, and skillful attacking player has no room to work in. Increasingly it is sledge-hammer tactics, brute-force and ignorance.
Cass
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