h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

An apple tree is NOT an apple tree because it happens to have apples hanging on it. It produces apples BECAUSE it is an apple tree. IT CANNOT PRODUCE PEARS, TOMATOES, OR ANYTHING ELSE.

In the same way, people sin, BECAUSE THEY ARE SINNERS. NO unsaved person can cease from sin, and if anyone tries to adopt the Law of God and live by it, they would find in very short order that everything in them revolts against the Law of God.

It may be that an apple tree does not have any apples on it, or any leaves, in the Winter. However, it is STILL an apple tree, and, come Spring, leaves come out, then apple blossom, then little apples, which grow to mature apples.

Just because someone may appear to be a nice person, and may be 'caring', 'polite', 'helpful', 'intelligent', etc., it does not mean that they are not sinners. Even if they are not producing sins now, they have in the past, and will in the future. They are sinners! They cannot help it.

If we could take our apple tree and change its genetics, and give it the nature of a pear tree, it would produce pears, would it not? That cannot actually be done, but this only a parable.

In new birth God gives someone a new heart; a new principle in them. He deals with the congenital evil in men, and replaces it with congential good. They then have to learn to walk in it. They CAN still walk in the old ways if they choose, and they DO make mistakes while learning to walk in God's way, having walked with their darling devil all their lives previously. BUT they do not HAVE to sin. ALL sinners have no choice; they are slaves.

That is new birth, as Jesus spoke of in Jn.3.

No new birth - no Heaven, and no new Earth after Judgement Day. Only eternal burning.

And have you ceased from all sinning, Justin? Are you now a perfect human being?

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Trees can be grafted to produce different types of fruit. This doesn't change the basic nature of the tree but it offers a new option for them.

I have nothing against Jesus at all, I quite like a lot of his teachings. But he is not the ONLY way to enlightenment and God, Justin. You believe he is, so that is fine for you. But that doesn't make the rest of us wrong or 'sinners', except in your eyes.

az

"If we could take our apple tree and change its genetics, and give it the nature of a pear tree, it would produce pears, would it not? That cannot actually be done, but this only a parable."

It can be done.

Parables have more power if the examples they use are true.

Parables where the examples are false, and in conflict with reality, just make the teller look ignorant and stupid, and encourage anyone listening to question everything he says because he has shown himself a liar.

Have you ever even BEEN in a garden? Or spoken to a molecular biologist? Do you even know what a molecular biologist IS?

Hi Justin

Even in biblical times it was known that you could graft branches from similar fruit trees onto an apple to produce trees that bore both fruit. Such as Apples and Pears. Indeed apple stock is very forgiving and will support a wide range of such grafts.

Do not mix tree parables with a tree-hugger my friend.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Justin

I have a simple question.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Personally, I say that the egg came first. The creature that laid the egg, was something LIKE a chicken, but not quite. What do you think?

Separately, you can make an apple tree produce pears. It would be helpful to you, if you could actually check your facts before making such pronouncements. It makes you look really silly when you are wrong (as so often seems to be the case).

Madent

This is the whole issue. The reason why sinners sin, is because that is their very nature. They must sin, in the same way that an apple MUST produce apples. It may not produce apples all the time, or very much of a crop when it does, but it is still an apple tree, and behave like an apple tree it must.

In the same way, sinners cannot cease from sin. They cannot stop sinning, even if they become very religious like a Muslim or Catholic.

Almighty God says, "You must be born again." You have to have a total spiritual change on the inside, or you will never be able to get free from sin. In the same way that an apple tree, if it were possible, given a genetic change, would produce pears, a sinner, given a spiritual change produces righteousness, automatically.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is NOT about modifying people's behaviour, but in giving them a spiritual 'genetic' change. That is why Jesus went on the Cross; to deal with what human beings ARE. And to rise again from the dead, to give them new life, free from the power of sin.

God's people, (about 0.5% of the British people), CAN sin, if they go wrong, or are baby Christians learning to walk in the new life, but they do not HAVE TO sin. God's people learn how to walk in the new life they are given, and are saved. All sinners burn.