h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Unbelief is high crime against God.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn.3:18

All human beings are already condemned, by nature, as they have not believed God, and obeyed Him. Like most on h2g2, they would rather fight the Truth, attack the messenger, and try and put the light out, than obey.

That is what they did to Jesus. Very, very, few believed Him. He proved BEYOND ALL DOUBT who He was, and they could not argue against it. And, when they, like those on h2g2, could not disprove what He said, or counter the power or authority with which He spoke, they could not stop themselves delivering Him up to death. Everything in them rose up against God, just like it does in most people today, when a preacher dares to tell the Truth, which always antagonises the wicked and Antichrist.

People don't have to DO anything to go to Hell, as such. They are on the way there automatically. The ONLY way off the conveyor belt taking them there is Christ, HIMSELF. Emphatically NOT mere religion about Him - without Him, that many have.

Oh, Justin. You are so totally a hypocrite. You may remember that Jesus was not too impressed by hypocrites. And you're also very mean spirited.

Tell you what Justin....you certainly get your message across.
You certainly have a grasp of English too.

Oetzi,

It is not my message! I am only the delivery boy. My grasp of English, I am sure my English teacher would have told you, is 'creative', and 'not quite what it could be'.

Keep 'em in work Justin mate.
Let's keep the numbers up.
Bush House loves stats!

So much for God's justice, then.

Belief is not commanded or chosen. I can't choose to believe in the tooth fairy, or to disbelieve in my own existence. And as you've said yourself, belief is authored by God.

Noggin

"People don't have to DO anything to go to Hell, as such. They are on the way there automatically."

In that case, I have a question for you, Justin. If Jehovah really loves humanity, why does he allow it to continue? If every baby born is condemned to hell and only a very small percentage, apparently less than .5% will be saved, then the most merciful thing he could do is sterilize all humans instantaneously. Let them continue their sinful lives and go to hell if he can't/won't save them all for some reason, but don't allow sinners to keep being convieved.

Why not? Why not?

RDO,

Seeing as you are so clever why don't you ask Him? I am sure that, as you consider yourself above God, in that you DARE question Him, He will be forced, by your understanding, to answer you,surely?

Hang around. All will become clear anyway. You will either see Christ on Judgement Day, or you will see Him when He comes in glory if you are still alive.

You will have all the answers that your impudence could possibly summon.

It seems that you have said that in order to be saved, you must know Jehovah.

Well, how am I to know him? You say the Bible is written for the saved, it will not make sence to the unsaved. He does not seem to want to come down and reveal everything to me--at least He hasn't yet and, from the statistics you have presented, it seems very unlikely that He will. The only path open to me seems to be to ask questions. I cannot ask them of Him dirrectly, as He has chosen not to answer me (at least no yet). What better choice do I have but to question those who already know Him? Only by asking questions about Him can I understand and know him (unless he reveals Himself to me, which he hasn't done yet and seems unlikely to do).

If there is a better way, please explain it. How can I follow a path I can't see?

RDO,

If what Christians have was a mere philosophy, or theology, then you would need to be taught it, and your proposition would be quite reasonable. But they don't.......

Very wise, you cannot follow a path you cannot see. And unless God be pleased to put you on the path you will never find it either! However, He has said, "You will find ME, when you seek ME with your whole heart."

At the moment though you do not have any idea why such an appalling punishment as the Cross should be meted out to Jesus in your place. You have no idea why eternal burning is warranted in your case, either. Until you do there is no point even thinking about anything else.

If you really want to begin seeking, then you need to go and find a church where the Word of God is preached in the power of the Spirit. Or, perhaps, some gospel outreach meeting somewhere.

However, the things you asked about are irrelevant to your current state. Even if I spent hours and hours correcting your thinking, you would not accept what I told you, so, if you don't mind, I will pass on beginning.

Come on folks...your disrupting the thred!

"You have no idea why eternal burning is warranted in your case, either."

I'm starting to see a reson, though the apparent cruelty of the punishment does seem excessive. It is clear that there is much I need to understand to grasp your Truth.



"However, the things you asked about are irrelevant to your current state. Even if I spent hours and hours correcting your thinking, you would not accept what I told you, so, if you don't mind, I will pass on beginning."

OK, if you don't think you can make me accept your corrections, then there's no point in me asking you to.

Bye. Perhaps I'll talk to you later.

RDO,

As and when God shows you your state you will be more than happy to accept the sentence on what you are as carried out on Christ in your place. If you still think you are good in some way then you have not begun to see any need for repentence.

It is not my place to 'make you see' truth. Either you have ears to hear, or you do not. This is NOT a philosophy, a theology, or an intellectually derived thing of ANY sort. This is real. If you see no need now, then you had just as well go and enjoy yourself, you will only be utterly frustrated by being told truths that mean you spend hours and hours trying to reason away.

"If you still think you are good in some way then you have not begun to see any need for repentence."

I don't think I think that, but it is quite hard to repress such thoughts--I guess that's what you say sin is so hard to escape.



"Either you have ears to hear, or you do not."

I'm not quite clear what this means, I think you're saying that there is nothing you an do to make it easier or harder for me to know Jehovah.



"This is real."

If it wasn't, why would I bother with it?



"If you see no need now, then you had just as well go and enjoy yourself, you will only be utterly frustrated by being told truths that mean you spend hours and hours trying to reason away."

If I see no need to do what? I do see a need to see the truth, only I can't seem to see it and have difficulty knowing where to look. I think you've in previous posts given me an idea of where you say I should look.

RDO,

As you constantly use the term 'Jehovah', rather than 'The Lord Jesus' or 'The Father', I assume you have some sort of background in JW'ism. Is that right?

If so, you will be innoculated against the Truth as you will have been taught not to accept the Truths of God in some areas, and you will never be saved.

Seeing as you style yourself 'Defender of Skepticism' you are in a rather difficult place, as all skeptics burn. Salvation is by FAITH, but if you insist on skepticism you will never see anything.

"That is what they did to Jesus. Very, very, few believed Him. He proved BEYOND ALL DOUBT who He was, and they could not argue against it."

That is simply falacious. If he had proved beyond ALL doubt his authenticity, we wouldn't be having this debate.

"And, when they, like those on h2g2, could not disprove what He said, or counter the power or authority with which He spoke, they could not stop themselves delivering Him up to death."

Not sure that I follow the reasoning here. I feel that very many of the arguments that you have advanced here on h2g2, have been successfully countered. You obviously feel that they haven't and see further refutation and attempts to engage in debate as bluster. Perhaps we should all start to use short words, maybe then the message will get across better.

As for whether you live or die Justin, that is down to you. I seriously question your judgement if you think that anybody within h2g2 has in anyway indicated that the world would be a better place without you, let alone indicated a willingness to make it so.

"Everything in them rose up against God, just like it does in most people today, when a preacher dares to tell the Truth, which always antagonises the wicked and Antichrist."

I think this borders on delusions of grandeur again, Justin. Do you really want to make the claim that you are so much like your saviour? Do you really want to make us laugh? If so then please do continue with this approach.

Not one word of any sermon that you have published on h2g2 bears even a passing resemblance in content or meaning to anything that is recorded in the four gospels as the words of Jesus. Not one word can even be said to be related in anyway to other contemporary works which also claim to record the words of Jesus.

Madent

Justin
You are entitelled to your opinion.
If others find difference then so be it.

Hi Justin ,

Hope you are not afraid of heights for that is one hell of a horse you're preachifying from .

"Unbelief is high crime against God."

No, unbelief is a symptom of your failure to convince just one person on this huge forum that you speak for God. I have talked to you about this before, but you believe yourself inerrant, a condition that only your God can achieve. Bit of a conundrum that eh?

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn.3:18

Not this old nutter. The only gospel to really move away from being a biography of Jesus. If we examine history we will find that John was desperate to prove that the jewish Messiah, the liberator of the Jewish people from their opporessors, had indeed arrived. He was wrong, Jesus wasn't the Messiah, despite his royal Judaen blood, and the Jews were first defeated and then scattered.

"All human beings are already condemned, by nature, as they have not believed God, and obeyed Him. Like most on h2g2, they would rather fight the Truth, attack the messenger, and try and put the light out, than obey."

You persist in this strange belief that we are attacking you. It is a form of delusional paranoia Justin and I would seriously suggest you seek help. You have chosen to walk into a debating forum Justin, set out your arguments and then expect everyone to blindly go along with you. If you don't want a debate get a radio station.

"That is what they did to Jesus. Very, very, few believed Him. He proved BEYOND ALL DOUBT who He was, and they could not argue against it. And, when they, like those on h2g2, could not disprove what He said, or counter the power or authority with which He spoke, they could not stop themselves delivering Him up to death. Everything in them rose up against God, just like it does in most people today, when a preacher dares to tell the Truth, which always antagonises the wicked and Antichrist."

No he upset the political applecart by opposing the plans of the Sanhedrin. Jesus' own illegitimate birth ruled him out for consideration as the Messiah. So they arranged his death through the Roman Administration. Politics, not religion or belief.

"People don't have to DO anything to go to Hell, as such. They are on the way there automatically. The ONLY way off the conveyor belt taking them there is Christ, HIMSELF. Emphatically NOT mere religion about Him - without Him, that many have."

And you still object to me describing your God as a genocidal maniac? According to you he will gladly sacrifice 99.5% of the human race simply because he cannot be bothered to author the faith in them that would save them. And you wonder why your preaching is so unsuccessful? Good grief!

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

" If you see no need now, then you had just as well go and enjoy yourself,"

Once again, the true message of Justin's preaching slips through. I'm fairly sure he doesn't actually realise that this is what he's preaching, but I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here - and what I'm about to say is absolutely 100% consistent with Justin's position (Justin - if this is NOT the case, please, correct me).

Justin's preaching states this:

Ignore religion.
Ignore God.
Ignore preachers.
Ignore the Bible.
It is all a waste of your time, unless and until you are SAVED.
You can ONLY be saved if God be pleased to author faith in you.
DO NOT waste your time until then doing good works, for they shall benefit you not in the least. God does not care if you are an alcoholic, a womaniser, a liar, an adulterer, a fornicator - all words which could describe Justin himself - and presumably wouldn't care about other offences either. He will, or will not SAVE you, at some point, if he choose to.
After that point - you're all right.
Up to that point - Party ONNN! Because NOTHING you do will make the slightest difference in God's eyes.

I'm off to rape a virgin and eat the heart from a living baby, because if God saves me it won't matter, and if he doesn't, how much worse could it be than it's already going to be because I'm an atheist?

hi Madent,

<"That is what they did to Jesus. Very, very, few believed Him. He proved BEYOND ALL DOUBT who He was, and they could not argue against it."> (Justin)

<> (you)

You beat me to that one, as obviously if Jesus had proved BEYOND ALL DOUBT who He was, then there would not have been any problem. No one would have dared to kill the true son of God. But they had doubt about this, since Jesus was not actually able to prove this.

az