h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I have a question related to etiquette in regards to dinner “parties”, be they formal affairs or casual barbecues.

I'll be leaving it in a second post because it's turned out to be quite wordy and I don't want people to have to scroll like mad down my page. Plus it'll be easier for those of you who aren't interested to ignore that way, too.

I’m asking this here because I’ve had this discussion before and I’m not really satisfied with the input I’ve gotten; when I discuss with people who know me, they tend to take my side, and that's not always totally helpful.

Most of us have, at some point, have either dined at someone else’s home, or hosted guests in our own home.

It’s my opinion that while it is polite, when possible, for the host/ess to try to accommodate, it is in less than good taste for a guest to expect or demand that the host/ess prepare food specially to accommodate any eating restrictions or dietary choices, especially when this would involve extra work, or would violate the host/ess’s principles.

Obviously no one would avoid inviting someone to dinner or accepting such an invitation because of such differences, or none of us would ever socialize with anyone.

Assuming that the company is more important than the food, so declining the invitation isn’t a feasible option, and assuming that a good host/ess wouldn’t want any of his or her guests to have to watch the others eat while going hungry- is it really never all right for a guest to bring along a little something at the very least for his or her own consumption? I often hear that it is unacceptable for a guest to bring along food to a dinner regardless of the circumstances.

While I can appreciate that the host/ess might not want to plop an additional entrée, side dish, dessert or what have you on the table to clash with his or her menu, it’s possible that at least one guest may not be able to eat what’s being served. I am *not* referring to instances when someone brings along a bottle of Dom because they’re too good to drink Korbel, or brings along a cheap ready-made dip to put on a well-prepared buffet table. That’s just tacky.

How about a catered event or banquet?

And what if the roles are reversed? Would anyone ask/demand that their host/ess to prepare or serve food that violates his/her principles?

I’m curious to know what some of you think. Most of you will know why I ask for your input, but as you lot respond and I take your comments under consideration, I'll surely be less generic about it.

Well, if the guest's dietary requests are within reason I try to accomodate them.

I don't serve pig meat to a Muslim or Jewish guest. I don't serve meat to a vegetarian and if I know that someone is lactose intolerant I make something without milk.

Usually it's not a problem. It often very easy to for example serve fish, or make something where the meat is added separately to those wanting it.

However, I cut things in the order and with which tools I want, regardless of preferences of guests - or veggie hatchlings.

A good host and competent cook should be able to accommodate. But a good guest shouldn't expect to be able to eat the entire selection on offer.

I agree, Ed, that a good guest shouldn't expect to be able to have everything. What about those situations where the guest pretty much knows from experience that s/he won't be able to eat anything, and the host for whatever reason is unable to accommodate?

And here's one I have a hard time explaining to one of my friends- that while it's perfectly reasonable to a host to accommodate a guest's dietary restrictions or needs, but a host should never been expected to violate his or her principles to accommodate a guest. One of my dear friends and I go around and around with this one (though neither of us has ever served the other food ), and she's of the opinion this isn't "fair", I can't quite find the right words to explain why it is.

DQ, I know that I for one would never demand that items be handled or prepared in a certain order or anything like that. Most cooks at least wipe the knife or use separate cutting boards for meat and veg anyway, so it's probably a non-issue, but even if that's not the case, it's one I'm willing to forget about when I'm not in my own home.

>>What about those situations where the guest pretty much knows from experience that s/he won't be able to eat anything, and the host for whatever reason is unable to accommodate?

Then the polite thing is to find an excuse to turn down the invite. Or, if, say, a vegan host - not to invite a militant, high-maintenance carnivore for fear that tofu may cause offence.

There's a good book by Quentin Crisp on etiquette. Some of the things he suggests seem, at first, rude - but they're just about being adult and not wilfully annoying one another.


>> Most cooks at least wipe the knife or use separate cutting boards for meat and veg anyway,

In theory - and for very good reasons. But bet they don't.

I don't think it would be polite for a family member to find an excuse to turn down every invitation for a visit, especially on holidays. So, assuming that declining every invitation is not a feasible solution, what would be so wrong in bringing something along to eat?

Last barbecue I was invited to- in fact, the last two- I brought along a veggie burger patty and asked the host to toss it on the grill alongside the burgers/chicken, and both were more than happy to do so. At the first, the veggie burgers were the only thing I was able to eat (the rest of the meal was cole slaw and potato salad). At the second, there was at least corn on the cob and watermelon, which I could make do with.

But I've been invited to Christmas dinners where there was nothing but ham, turkey and cheese. Surely it's much more polite to bring along a bite.

As for militant carnivores- setting aside that humans are not carnivores at all (they may have developed, out of convenience, to be omnivores, but there isn't a human alive that could live on *only* meat)- I've never met anyone who was militant about eating habits at all, but eating meat is hardly a dietary restriction so most omnivorous types seem happy to eat a veggie dish here and there.

Can't say as I've ever served tofu to an omni without being specifically asked to do so.

Thanks for all the feedback. It's interesting that it would be considered more polite to avoid one's family than to bring a sandwich.

>> Most cooks at least wipe the knife or use separate cutting boards for meat and veg anyway,

In theory - and for very good reasons. But bet they don't.<

Well, yeah, I realize that this is the ideal. But I'm willing to ignore the possibility that it might not happen all of the time. As long as I don't willingly and knowingly consume something I shouldn't be eating, I figure I'm doing all right even if something might have touched.

BarBQs and Christmas Dinners have their own, separate etiquettes.

That they might.

But we're still talking about sitting around the same dining room table with the same people, so I was just thinking in vague terms.

Do you mean it's acceptable to bring a veggie burger along when the food is being cooked outdoors, but it's not OK to bring along a little something when there's a turkey in the oven?

I'm really curious as to what the difference is, and etiquette experts really seem to disagree with each other on this.

'Etiquette experts'

Well, I don't emply them, but outfits like Slate and the New Yorker do. What would you call the guy who wrote the etiquette book you'd mentioned?

Anyhoo... I've clearly chosen the wrong venue for this discussion and have brought it over to another message board. Thank you both for your input.

>>What would you call the guy who wrote the etiquette book you'd mentioned?

Either a Resident Alien or a Stately Homo of England.

Nah - expertise in etiquette only works if everyone knows the same rules. Other than that - best to try and do whatever makes everyone feel comfortable. And try and relax.

Quentin Crisp:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Crisp

His autobiogs highly recommended. Check out the John Hurt film.

Well, I had this problem recently - thought it would be rude to bring something non-meat to my boss's party, especially as he knows I don't eat meat...

Unfortunately, his wife hunts and skins her own dinners so *everything* had meat in it except one pasta salad Should've brought something, will do next time. I think a good general rule is bring something yourself, but bring enough to share if someone else wants to try. Informal invitations, just ask whether you should - or better yet, volunteer - to bring a side dish you'd be happy to have as a main meal.

Vegetarians are lucky hosts - we can accomodate nearly everyone, it's easy to keep kosher or halal, for example, when nothing ever contains meat. Smallest common denominator, and all that.

>Stately Homo of England



I think Mala, that you've touched on what has me doing the questioning. The "bring enough to share". Because I think that would be ideal, but neither do I want to imply that the host is necessarily an inferior cook or that their meal is somehow incomplete, if you know what I mean? Or what if it "clashes"?

Side dish which I could use as main meal has worked out somewhat well in the past, with the exception of the older lady waving the piece of ham in my face and saying "oh, you don't know what you're missing".

You've reminded me of last Christmas when even the tossed salad had shredded cheese and bacon all over it. I waited till everyone else had taken some, and fished some off the bottom of the bowl once the top layer was gone.

If I can find any Quentin Crisp around I will check him out. Sounds like a fun guy.

An amazing guy! A hero! Look out this classic deebeedeebie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073438/

Netflix has it available. But John Hurt? Argh.

In my family, we have vegetarians and vegans, five of the six world religions with all that implies, some people who won't eat most veggies, diabetics, lactose intolerance, gluten intolerance, allergies... So nearly every get-together, from Christmas to weddings, is a potluck. Everyone brings something they like, everyone is happy, and we can concentrate on the reason we're there.