h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

One of my best friends in college listened to that Queensryche tape until it wore through. At first I thought you were him, but reading your intro ruled you out. Still, it'd be rude to visit a newcomer and not say hi, so... 'Hi'.

I've seen you've received quite a few greetings already from ACEs (Assistant Community Editors) and others. While some folks have called them 'A**holes' for coming on too strong in the past, they really are a well-intentioned bunch (heck, I'm even one of them ). The ACEs serve as a meeting and greeting committee to help newcomers find their feet, but since you've been lurking for a while, it seems like you've got a handle on the basics. (That's exactly how I started here too!)

You've seen a lot of the politics of the Guide already, but I'm curious as to what you think of the entries on the site. That's where I try to focus most of my energies. Being a native of Pennsylvania and the son of a thwarted history teacher, I've written lots of entries about my state and its past.

Perhaps you could do the same about where you live? Even entries on favourite restaurants, clubs, and odd features of your local area will help 'grow the guide' *or* you could delve into more serious topics - my personal hobby is astronomy entries.

Either way, there's a lot more to h2g2 than the community and its squabbles. Do see if there's anything you could contribute there.

Wow. This little greeting has gone on far too long already. Thanks for sticking with me if you're still reading all this - I know better than to write this much, but sometimes I just forget myself.

Anyway, welcome to the Guide! If you find you've got any questions, do feel free to give me a shout here in this forum or over at my personal space http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/u53353

- Jimi X

btw: Have you seen Douglas Adams' homepage yet? If not, it's at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/u42

Hi Jimi X,

Nice of you to drop by. Yeah, politics. I've always been interested. I don't always get involved, but I'm curious, you know? Maybe morbidly so?

I'm pondering what to write about. I haven't done much nonfiction. I'll see what I come up with. I don't really feel like writing about places right now, cause I've moved around a lot, and the only place I spent a real significant amount of time was Greenwich Village, in New York City. That's an owie.

I mean moved around a lot. I'm actually a British expat everywhere except the UK. It's been safer to have any passport than a US one since the '70s, so I have.

Thanks for the note. Yes. I need to find out where the fun is, as well as where the arguments are! Definitely.

~Silent Lucidity~

If you've moved around a lot, I'm sure you could write the definitive entry on 'packing and unpacking'

I've moved my family a lot during my former job as a newspaper reporter and I've found that the ability to pack is an acquired skill. Sounds Guide worthy if you want to hash something together...

As far as fun places, have you tried the h2g2 Astronomy Society? It's a bit serious, but the conversations are truly stimulating - plus astronomers are predicting a huge meteor shower for this coming weekend. http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A413876

A bit more silly if you fancy virtual pubs is the h2g2 Legs http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A187508 which has been running for as long as I can remember.

Anyway, have fun (which is one of the most important bits of advice to remember here) and I'll hopefully see you around the site!

- X

Hey Jimi X.

I know when I was a kid we took everything all over the damn globe, and I don't really know how that was arranged. My family just were bent on having the same stuff wherever we lived.

What about an entry on 'selling what you can, donating the rest, and leaving'? I've done that a few times. I hate moving house. I hate packing because you realise in three months you've accumulated more stuff than you started with. Sell it. Donate it. Throw it away. Leave it where someone who needs one is likely to find it. Get out. Start again.

I know other people do it differently, but they have families and want things like stability.

I'll start reading the peer review and looking at what people do. Maybe I'll get an idea, or my jerk side will take over and say 'I can do THAT!' and then have to prove it.

~Silent Lucidity~

We moved four or five times when I was a kid. It really sucked - especially once I started in school.

Were you an Army brat or on the lam from the police?

Actually, my father was always very vague about where the money, and there was no shortage, came from. Not an army brat or anything that involved living on base. International finance? International organised crime? International espionage? Damn if I know. He sure seemed to have a way of greasing his way through life... of course, that could have just been his oily personality.

I couldn't honestly tell you why, we just moved a lot, sometimes in mid-school year. That sucked. He had these estates, rented, owned, I have no clue. Mother wanted to take her damn Persian carpets everywhere, so she did. Well, they were real, so she couldn't leave them for the tenants, or owners, or whatever came later. Weird people. Very.

~Silent Lucidity~

Yuck!

Sounds incredible awful. Sorry about the 'on the lam' comment. I didn't realize...

Sometimes I regret having a perfect size 11 mouth - if I didn't it'd sure be easier to keep my foot out of it.

Don't worry about it Jimi! I really think that emoticon should be called 'Moonie'. No, I'm an old person. He's dead, she wasn't last I heard, but I don't ask. It made me laugh, actually.

I move around because, fundamentally, I'm weird. This is a direct result of growing up with them: she's arranging flowers and making him translate orders at the local servants. He was good with languages. So'm I. She never bothered, because he always knew the local languages. I realise now some of those servants felt sorry for me. I was too much of a little tick to realise it then. Spoilt and wrecked; it's a weird combination. Most people don't associate miserable childhoods with the flipping jet set.

Now I'm getting old enough that I'm starting to think of stopping to take a break. I just haven't figured out where, yet.

Sorry to philosophise at you like that. I was just talking to someone who spooked me by reminding me so much of me!

~Silent Lucidity~

If it's not too personal, do you have any kids of your own?

Avoiding the constant moves that my career had demanded is something I've made a priority in our lives. I've settled for a steady, if mind-numbingly dull, job in public relations.

If we *do* decide to move again, it'll only be when my kids are out of school. I'd hate for them to go through the making new friends every year routine.

Just read the 'Wounded Seal' entry you wrote. That was incredibly powerful, moving stuff.

Obviously you can write and write well.

Have you considered submitting that to the h2g2 Post to share with the whole community? The Post is sort of like a weekly community newspaper that is entirely run by volunteers. They accept just about anything (no tricky guidelines or rules) and appreciate quality writing for its own sake.

Again, and simply - wow.

* Mark*

If circumstances have been otherwise, this person could have been an incredibly valuable contributor to the Guide.

- Willem

I have never disputed this fact Willem.

However, in order to fit into a *community* we all must adhere to some basic rules. Arpeggio failed to do so. Silent Lucidity failed to do so during his attempt to rejoin the community surreptitiously.

Personally, I would welcome this person's contributions to the Guide and the community as long as he/she is able to adhere to the standards of conduct that are expected of us all. The fact that this person is a 'multiple' and contains personas that are unable to follow the rules does not work for me. If he/she is unable to control these 'others', this person has no place in *this* online community - which is a shame, but an unavoidable one.

I had a suspicion quite early as to the 'identity' of this person - urging him to contribute to the Guide in positive ways was my vain attempt to guide him into a productive relationship with the community instead of 'more of the same' behaviour which prompted the italics to check the IP address and eventually suspend the account for a week.

I recall reading that Peta said it would be fine for a banned Researcher to return to the site as long as he was able to follow the terms and conditions which apply to the entire community. Sadly, this wasn't the case this time.

One would hope that this would be the last time the italics and the community have to deal with this type of situation.

- X

If this site is ever to be anything like a *real* community, it has to have some ability to accommodate 'difficult' characters. I have absolutely no doubt that there are already people registered here who are more antisocial than LeKZ or Silent Lucidity are. There are definitely going to be more. Anyways, LeKZ are good friends of mine, we get along really well, and I have the impression that in 'real life', they are tolerated pretty OK, and haven't been imprisoned yet as far as I could tell ... I personally would like to believe that would be enough for a site like this one. I think the rules here are a bit silly. I do challenge them occasionally. I disagree about that people need to follow rules in order to fit into a community. Humanity is a community, and people belong to that community merely because they are human.

I would argue that humanity is *not* a community but merely a grouping of individuals.

To me community more accurately equates with the word 'society' and without some sense of order society breaks down into anarchy. Perhaps some people want to see anarchy and chaos here on h2g2. Personally, I'm drawn to this site because it is *not* a free-for-all. There's more than enough of that on the web already.

It's great that they're your friend. I've kept out of much of the nastiness surrounding your friend and I bear them no grudge. However, two efforts to rejoin the site since the lifetime suspension have already been made and I don't want to see this continue forever...

Perhaps if you made it clear to your friend that (however unfair it may seem) hir contributions to h2g2 are unwanted as long as they persist in anti-social behaviour, they might get the message better than if it came from one of the italics.

I agree that they have much to offer. But not at the price of damaging the experience of the site for others.

- X

I don't like chaos and anarchy either, but I prefer a kind of order that is not based on rules, but on patterns and relationships. Few people seem to be able to think in those sort of terms, though.

People keep saying that LeKZ are antisocial. It's just not true. Many people believe that, though, and so they see almost everything done by them as if it's antisocial. It's actually a case of a 'different culture'. It's like some cultures believes you should burp after eating a meal, to show that you've eaten well. Other cultures consider that rude. It's the same thing here. LeKZ see things a bit differently from other people. They're outspoken, they do challenge people about some of the things those people say ... such behaviour is considered rude by some people, but it can easily be seen differently. LeKZ are not 'anti-social'. They're anti-some-people. They are harshly critical of the actions of a *few* people here on h2g2, because those people have in fact done a lot to deserve those criticisms. With other people they are very friendly, though. If people behave well towards them, they behave well back. If people *attack* them, though, they defend themselves. In their view, defense is impossible without admitting some possibility of offense. I agree with them on that. The only other option would be to just let people bash them and walk all over them ... and that is simply not fair.

When you say you'd prefer an order that is not based on rules, but on patterns and relationships you also admit that few people seem to be able to think in those sort of terms.

So what are the italics to do?

If the order you'd prefer isn't accessible to many people, they've got to use the order which will work best - in this case rules.

I've always felt the site would function well with only one rule - Don't be a jerk. Interpretations of that would cover everything else. Of course some people wouldn't like giving the italics so much 'power'.

When you say LeKZ are not anti-social but that they're 'anti-some-people' I really think that's a pretty fine distinction to make, but I won't argue.

But what bothered me most with your post *and* the biggest problem I find with LeKZ is that they attack since 'only other option would be to just let people bash them and walk all over them'.

I don't feel that this is the case. You can always walk away. Attacking back merely feeds the flames.

I got into a confrontation with another Researcher here a long time ago. He posted some crap on my pages and I ignored him. Guess what? He went away and eventually gave up and left the site.

Take away the oxygen and the flames go away.

It's not fun being attacked. But fighting back does not solve anything. It might not be fair to allow someone to hurl abuse at you, but they'll look small and silly if you don't respond in kind.

*And* if they follow you into other threads and attack you there, you can the post and explain that you've got a problem with this person and I'm sure the italics would help you.

Maybe I've just been here too long to appreciate what's going on. Maybe I don't understand that the site's 'vibe' has changed to one where you *must* fight back for some reason or be viewed as less.

Somehow, I don't think that's true.

LeKZ and I have talked a lot about being attacked, and defending oneself. LeKZ have a serious problem on this front. They suffer very badly from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. They were abused in a variety of ways over a long period, the majority of their lives in fact. Over this period they were totally voiceless and powerless. They were unable to defend themselves, unable to resist. They were *not* left alone. They were just abused the more. Currently, being silenced, not being able to speak out, having to 'take it', constitutes a serious trigger for them. They feel the need to speak out, very strongly.

For them, it is like a wife being abused by her husband, and being told to keep quiet about it, or like a woman being raped, and told to just lie there and enjoy it and not resist, and not tell people about it afterwards.

LeKZ believe that they *have to* speak out; by not speaking out, they are strengthening the hands of the abusers, they are complicit in the abuse. I understand this standpoint of theirs. Asking them not to defend themselves, to keep quiet, is like asking someone to submit to being raped. That is the *context* from which they interpret these things.

I am at this *very moment* speaking to LeKZ about this very thing. I'm trying to persuade them to back down and let others defend them. I'm not sure if they will agree to that. What I am *not* in favour of is to just let people attack them and say nothing. What I've *seen* is that people just go on attacking them and just go on saying nasty and unfounded things about them, even when they keep quiet.

But surely some stupid comments from a complete stranger on a silly website is not worth the energy?

I can appreciate what you're saying, but the attack simply spawn more attacks. As far as I know, no controversial thread about them has ever gone unchallenged, feeding the flames.

I would *NEVER* suggest that someone should submit to being raped. A friend of mine was raped and to use this analogy is offensive.

This is a *website* nothing more. If someone spews hatred toward me here or somewhere else on the web guess what - I wouldn't care. It doesn't touch me. They're just words. Of course, on this site I do have the option of contacting a moderator if something gets too nasty. It's an option I've never had to use.

I've had nasty things written about me here. I could probably even find the forums if they're back from the moderation back-log. But they don't matter to me. They're irrelevant to my experience on h2g2.

It seems like much of LeKZ's experience here has become a constant assault on their so-called attackers. I'm *not* anti-LeKZ - I'm anti-conflict. The whole situation seems a bit silly to me because I've obviously got a different perspective about h2g2.

The things that take place here do not impact upon my personal life. I don't lie awake at night worrying about h2g2. It is simply a fun diversion for me to sharpen my writing and enjoy the writing of others.

All this conflict diminishes the h2g2 experience for some people on site. Causing other users to have less fun is something I'm pretty sure the italics will not allow. That's the simple reason I suggested 'turning the other cheek' and 'rising above it all'.

If LeKZ are unable to do this, I can't see any way they'll ever be happy here.

Dear Jimi X,

You ask this:

'But surely some stupid comments from a complete stranger on a silly website is not worth the energy?'

Why do you think am I having this conversation with you? Why are you having it with me? Why are we expending this energy? From my part - because I care about LeKZ, and I care about what people *think* of them, and I care about what people *say* about them. You call this a silly website ... but this is a public medium that is part of the BBC; who knows where this site will go in the future? What is written here is stored; many people can read this. This is supposed to be a *Guide*. Right now, in this Guide there is written a very large number of statements about my friends LeKZ, that are hurtful and untrue. And *I* care about that. I don't want that to be so. It *hurts me* to read those things here. It is not my idea of fun. I've complained about *many* of the things people said here about LeKZ. Most of the time the 'editors' overruled my complaints. But *why* should there be so many hurtful comments here? *Why* should LeKZ or I or any of their other friends have to stand for it?

LeKZ came here because they thought they could be a part of this community, and do some good writing, and raise awareness about some very important issues. Instead, they found themselves attacked, and attacked, and attacked, without letup. I was there before they were banned. I *know* how much they had to put up with. It was giving *me* pain and nightmares and sleepless nights to think of the way my friends were mistreated. You say you consider the comparison with rape offensive ... why? LeKZ *were really* raped, many, many, many times, and how can you argue with them when *they* say that the treatment they received here reminded them so much of that, that they were trigggered into reliving it all over again? It was like rape *for me*. I feel bruised and battered and used and sick and dirty anddisgusting, for all the things that were said about LeKZ and her friends, for trying to stand up for them against it all. Only words ... words have *power* and *meaning*. Unlike most people, LeKZ use their *real name* here. This is the same name they use on their websites that are there for helping survivors of rape, domestic violence, child abuse and other severe traumas. Their *actual reputation* has been tainted by the happenings here. Is this supposed to *not matter*? Is this supposed to be *fun*?? Do you think it is fun for *me*? Why do you think do I do this, even though it is *no fun at all* for me?

You don't like conflicts ... neither do many other people. But what happened here is *this*: LeKZ were scapegoated for receiving the blame. They were not alone in causing conflicts. The people who argued with and against them had an equal responsibility for those conflicts. But LeKZ were isolated and banished because that was the most convenient thing to do. And *LeKZ* were given the responsibility for *not resisting* those attacks, for *not defending* themselves. They were blamed for saying something against the people who attacked them, instead of the people who attacked them being blamed for attacking them. It is cockeyed. It is not justice. No bloody way. Now, there are some people who say, this is unjust. We keep on saying this. The people who don't want conflicts, want us to stop saying this, to go away. We are spoiling people's fun. It would maybe be convenient for us to be banned, also. Would that serve the site, the community? Is it *worth it* for us to be nagging about that, all the time? Why do you think we do it? Is this just a silly site? Is this inconsequential towards people's real lives?

First, I'm talking about this here because I'm genuinely interested in the situation which has created such a rift in an otherwise well-functioning community.

In terms of everything else I think there's a really simple answer.

LeKZ was banned because they didn't quit.

Playboy Reporter left the site on his own, came back and did some stupid things, but then he left for good and created a new persona and hasn't added any fuel to the flames since then.

He walked away. He didn't continue to beat that horse into the ground.

Even when LeKZ comes back with a 'new' personality, they continue to pound the same drum.

If LeKZ would have approached the editors and said:
'I want a clean break. I'm going to ignore all this negative stuff and concentrate on writing for the Guide and being a productive member of the community and not engage in further conflict with the people who are anti-LeKZ'
I would suspect that they would have been treated the same as the italics treated PR - asking everyone to stop bashing him since he was trying to make a clean break.

You say it is not in LeKZ's nature to walk away from a fight - even one as unproductive as this one has been.

Fine.

But I suspect that's the reason why they're no longer welcome.