h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I think you misunderstand me Terri. By your definition I would be a feral child too, but that's not what I'm getting at. By all means, it's great fun to climb trees and get chased by the parkie, but when we did it as children we never did anything out of malice. Unlike most kids today

That's awful! Do they really? I've lived away from UK so long, i read these awful headlines of kids stabbing & shooting with a large pinch of salt; i honestly don't know what the true situation is like.

I had an extremely "rough" childhood; but i certainly knew right from wrong, certainly knew any adult around would give me hell for doing more than "naughty", plus teachers, coppers, parkies etc were definitely Authority Figures; ie; respected but feared if you did bad & Very safe if you were in trouble.

I feel it's a dreadful state for both parents & kids to be in. What on earth is the solution?

zdt

Yes they do - my son is not a feral child, mostly because he doesn't want to be one, but he is often verbally abused by the kids roaming the streets (had to get the PCSO involved once). I have been as well, but that's usually cos I've objected to my car being egged not once but twice in a night, having things stuck to it that have been stolen from the shop opposite and generally I've wanted to go places they feel I shouldn't go. ie, along the pavement!

So, lots of malice there. I understand they are just bored and looking for something to do, but they don't seem to climb trees, enjoy riding their bikes or being outside in the summer unless they're deliberately winding someone else up.

I really do think the parents of these kids have a lot to answer to. In this blame-someone-else society they rely on teachers to bring their kids up for them, which I think is ridiculous. Too many parents just don't want to take responsibility for their offspring. I sound a lot older than I am but it really is amazing how fast attitudes have changed since I was an ankle biter

We weren't allowed out to play, never had anyone in to play and couldn't go round other people's houses. Even now I can see my mum discouraging the grandkids from playing with other kids - even the grandkids of friends of hers, so she's clearly not changed.

I'd liked to have been allowed out more, but not to roam the streets, just to play with other kids and their toys for a change! Then she wonders why she's got four kids who don't really know how to socialise properly!

I keep reading the title of this thread as 'fear of children' Spent most of my youth ferrel, not being from a very wealthy family we were left utterly to our own devices, and being near the river, sea and plenty of outside areas we spent most of our time out in them, climbing trees, starting small fires, 'messing about' etc. but as you say there really wasn't any malice in any of it, and as a reule we did our best to keep out of the way of any adults who might be about and who'd probably give us a bollacking shoudl be even be so awful as to speak/shout/sing loudly in adult earshot

I think it is sad that our kids won't be able to be as free-range as probably most of us were as kids. We live in a similar edge-of-the-countryside location now as when I was small and when I was young we went out to play, knocking for our mates, and disappeared for hours at a time over the fields and around our estate.

My wee one isn't going to have that kind of freedom - not because I am afraid someone will snatch him (this seems to worry a lot of my friends) but because the roads now are much faster, with heavier traffic and I fear he will get himself flattened by a speeding motor. I am going to have to take him to places where he can climb trees and fall in streams etc but I don't think it is safe to just let him out to go and find them himself until he is much older than I was when given that level of freedom to roam.

We generally stayed away from adults if we could, and certainly (apart from one boy who we all thought was 'naughty') wouldn't give them any lip...

I was a "latch-key" child... and loved it. I was the last to leave the house and the first to get back. I was roaming our rural/suburban neighborhood with the other kids starting in the second grade. We had our bicycles with banana seats (the original Schwinn Stingray being the coolest of the cool) and we mostly roamed the empty fields carving out bike trails. My dad had an old steam whistle he would blow just after the street lights came on that would end our day.

Yea, we didn't hassle adults... we avoided them with gusto. We were truly feral. We found as much wilderness as we could (in the few undeveloped blocks of our transitional suburbia). My favorite place was past the sewage treatment plant, across three barbed wire fences following a drainage ditch at least a couple of miles to the canal that fed the cooling towers at the local power plant. No adults for at least a mile and a half in any direction and none knew where we were. Spiced with the adrenalin rush of trespassing it was always an adventure.

My nephew grew up with my parents for a time a few decades later and he was rarely allowed out of the yard. I don't think he even got the opportunity to ride his bike to school because the main avenue had much more traffic (but not THAT much more in my opinion).

My parents grew up in rural areas, with freedom as far as the horizon. My horizon was much closer than theirs. My nephew grew up in captivity.

I don't envy kids today.

I think we have created a bit of a rod for our own backs. As people said in the (good) old days kids were never in, this meant that parents didn't have to put up with them.

Now kids are in, often because our society is perceived as more dangerous than is used to be. So... parents have to do this thing called parenting. This is a new concept at the level we are requiring it. Telling kids to wash their hands before dinner, feeding them, letting them watch a bit of telly and then sending them to bed was seen as good parenting. In effect it was minimal and routine played a big part.

Choice is now a double edged sword. If people didn't have much ordinary stuff was exciting. Now we have so much choice we don't know how to handle it.

E.g. 1960s child, "I wanna watch my programme!"
1960s parent, "I don't like your programme. We'll watch what I want to watch. If you don't want to watch it you can go to bed or read a book."
1960s child, "I like your programme too - I don't have to got to bed do I?"

2000s child, "I wanna watch my programme!"
2000s parent, "I don't like your programme. We'll watch what I want to watch. If you don't want to watch it you can:
a, watch your programme on one of the other 7 TVs
b, record your programme to watch at a time convenient to yourself.
c, surf the net
d, play on your computer
e, play on your games console
f, text your friends until your thumbs bleed
g, phone a friend
h, listen to your MP3 player/music system
i, read a book
j, go to bed

Very true. We didn't even have a TV (black & white) till i was around 7, it there was something special like (Lord save us!) Morecame & Wise or Dixon of Dock Green,or Doctor Who we went to my Nan's to watch.

When i wasn't out being feral, i generally was reading, colouring; building (Betta Bilda; much better than lego!)making stuff for Sindy doll, whatever, "home" stuff had to be quiet or else....

So, yes, i suppose Mad Mother actually didn't have to put up with me very much, basically i had supplies of stuff to amuse myself with & got told " children should be seen & not heard!"

I don't know what it is. French kiddies seem generally much like old fashioned UK kiddies, when Zen Ben (4yrs) visits with his parents (papa English, mama french), we supply him with books, colouring stuff, lego & he is perfectly fine. He asked the other day to watch a favourite programme on TV, no probs, but with volume low enough for adults to chat. He sits at the table & eats Real food & is included in conversations, but it's fairly clear "this is adult time, you've got school to yak in kiddiesqueak!" French kids are totally fine in restaurants etc.

However, he doesn't get let out to roam at all, gets driven to all sorts of extra classes (art, music, sport etc)

I reckon being a parent now is far harder than back then in the 50's/60's & being a kid seems to have lost this element of freedom; which is so sad really.

Where the actual "deliberate malice" stuff comes from; i don't know. I was a very angry kid, mainly because of mad mother beating me up, but the worst i did was torture insects briefly. (Typical me: i then made them a cemetary & <sob&gt I did run away a lot though & make hidden dens & steal containers & keep mice in them & sell baby mice for pocket money. And stabbed a couple of dolls, "i was playing hospitals, they have to be injured!" didn't go down at all well!

I also read Enid Blyton books constantly, she is very Moral "You may have Adventures, but that's a Baddie, you are the Goodie"

zdt

I used to love the Famous Five....then I saw Five Go Mad in Dorset

Although my parents were strict I still sneaked off to the local burn (stream) with my mates to build rope swings or to the local woods where there was an excellent dirt track that was perfect for bikes. I think the worst we did was nick apples from villagers' apple trees, but at the first sign of trouble we legged it!

I won't object to Jennifer wanting to play computer games or whatever, but I'll simply control her usage. I'm not sure if I'll let her be as well-travelled as I was as a youngster yet though...

That previous post may come back to bite you in the bloomers later on. "Ah! we had such high standards when we were young!"

We said we wouldn't let our children eat sweets, have toy guns and some other stuff. WE stuck to our guns for a while but specail treats started slipping in. And as for trying to control the presents relatives bought including vicious plastic daggers and such,, to get round the gun rule, had to be seen to be believed!