h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I will take a look at the thread kaz,later in the day.

I can understand what your saying Kaz.

I haven't read the thread yet either, so I guess I have no right to comment some would say, but being as this is a chat forum in your public journal, I hope you don't mind too much, but I'm going to post my view anyway because I like and trust you not to be freaked out by what I say.

I don't really want to read the offending thread because it isn't my cuppa tea either and I'd like to dwell on some good stuff today - but I will get around to having a look at some point, I may have to change my opinion after I've read it - but that's okay - I'm easily adaptable and reserve my right to change my perspective.

But I will say, in complete honesty - *I* dislike Az intensely and she irritates the crapola out of me, but from what I've read here, when she said she didn't mean to hurt you - I believe her.

Some people have a black (sometimes known as - a sick sense of) humor that helps them get over past grievances that seem abhorrent to others. That's about the crux of it I think.

I seem to be full of quotes this week, *ahem* but there is this saying that, "those that laugh the hardest, cry the hardest too".

It occurs to me too, that I am drawing this painfully out, if your not wanting to hear it Kaz - if so just tell me to shut up

I was just reading back looking for the link, and re-reading some stuff...and reading that KerrAvon said that "liked people, but not their problems". This seems a rather daft statement.

Peoples characters are formed by the problems and adversities that they have had to overcome, so sharing how you dealt with your problems is basically sharing your nature of self.

I can't see how you can like a person and not the way that they have dealt with their issues in life. This seems key to formation of their nature.

I don't mind your comments at all MV!

Hiya, Vix! I agree with you wholeheartedly about the things you said in both of your postings. Although I can't say I dislike Az, I don't know her or know of her well enough to form an opinion one way or another. But I will say that if I had posted a journal entry about some of my past experiences, or news about other people going through similar stuff, I would be very hurt, offended, and angry if someone posted that link KerrAvon did. And I would be very upset if someone claiming to like or care about me whatsoever would take the side of the person who did. If I were Kaz, I'd probably not have handled it as nicely. I have a nasty habit of telling people who treat me badly to f**k off.

I agree, how can you claim to "like people but not their problems". Yes, our experiences make us who we are, and if I like someone, I like them problems and all, and I care about being as supportive as possible. If someone's "problems" are too much (or, as is usually the case for me, dealt with too poorly or not at all), then what is the point of pretending to be a friend, only to hurt them?

Whole people come with holes.
People that refuse to accept it are more likely to become bigger holes than bigger people.

Hello people! I'm still here.

First of all - I do try not to judge people. I do not even go so far as to 'dislike' any person. I couldn't claim to know any person so well as to know there's nothing ... not even to mention a lot ... that is likeable and/or interesting about her/him. I do dislike *aspects* of many people. There's behaviour that irritates me ... there are things that people say or do that I consider to be irresponsible, ill-advised, reckless, inconsiderate, even cruel. But the *person* who does that, might be otherwise not so bad. Or maybe, even, the person who does that makes a habit of doing violent, hurtful things. But maybe even such a person could 'reform'. It's a hard thing to condemn an entire person, entirely, finally for always.

Sometimes, however, the behaviour of one person could constitute such a risk for other people that something drastic, like a total cutting-off of communication, needs to be done to save the one side from the other ... or, to save both sides from each other.

A number of issues have been raised here.

First of all - problems. Who in the world does not have problems?! I must say something here ... a person who, in this world, does not have serious problems, is not 'normal'!! In this world we live in, it is 'normal' to have oil-tanker-loads full of hideous grotesque problems. Every generation it gets worse; every generation inherits the unsolved problems of its ancestors. This will continue until we humans manage to figure out how to solve our problems without creating exponentially increasing numbers of new problems.

I do not 'like' people's problems. I would prefer it if people did not have problems. BUT - people do have problems. These problems often need to be considered. Sometimes, a person can help another person solve a problem, or cope better with a problem. Sometimes, one can merely act in such a way as to not, at least, exacerbate another person's problems. Sometimes one shoud consider that another person might be limited in some way by their problems, and not expect certain things from them, when these things are beyond their abilities.

In this world we meet a huge diversity of different people, each with uncountable scores of 'aspects' that make them who they are. In each case, the more you know about a person's situation, the better. You start to understand the things that are important to other people, whether in a negative way, or in a positive way.

I am *very interested* in people's problems, for these reasons:

1. It helps to have empathy with others;
2. Maybe I can do something to help another person to solve or better cope with problems;
3. Maybe another person's experience with solving/coping with problems can help me to solve/cope with my own problems better.
4. There might be a way to help other people avoid these problems, even, to eliminate these problems from society;
5. Sometimes, to help one appreciate the good in the world more;
6. Being happy for someone else who's managed to overcome or cope with a certain very bad problem.

Our lives are mixtures of good and bad. It's impossible to always be 'positive' and in my view, not necessarily good. I am a person who wants to look the evil in the eye, so to speak, face it head-on and either beat it or perish in the struggle. I want a thorough understanding of what is 'wrong' in the world, and in 'us' - in myself as well. I don't want to be spared the horrible details. I lost my innocence and naïvety ages ago. For now, I'm all set for the grim battle that lies ahead. I don't want to hold on to false hope, and yet, dimly in the distance, there is a glimmer of hope that might be true.

I believe that humans *have the power* to overcome problems, and ultimately, *that* is what I want to see. Any problem we can recognise, define, describe, analyze, we can solve, or prevent, or learn to cope with.

Some people *have* maneged to solve problems, or are coping well with them ... other people are not yet at that stage. Who can judge a person, for not yet being at that stage? The solution, or the coping, may yet come. And if it doesn't come, what of that?

What is it that is so special about 'the past'? Why should the past more, or less, important than the present, or the future? Some people have problems that originated long ago ... some people have problems that originate in the present ... some people are going to have problems that will originate in the future. Some problems started in the past, are still experienced in the present and will still be experienced in the future. Why must a person put his/her past 'behind' him/her? The past is as 'real' as the present and the future. What I am, is the product of my *entire* past - good as well as bad - and continues into the present and into the future. What I am is a 'whole' ... there are no breaks ... lines continue on from the past through the present to the future. If my 'self' was written into a book ... would the early chapters not be chapters of the 'same' book as the later chapters? If my life was written into a book, would there be any reason to consider the first chapters as being less important, less representational of 'a life', than the others?

Suppose I had suffered abuse in the past, and *died* as a result of the abuse, at the very time it happened. Then the abuse would effectively have 'sealed off', 'completed', my life, my experience. This actually happens to quite a large number of people in the world. Should one ignore people - lives - like these, because of being over-defined by problems? How do problems affect the 'identity' of a child who is physically abused from birth and finally beaten to death at the age of four?

Well it was probably mean of me to post how I feel about someone especially when it's not pleasant. I am not the first to do this however and I certainly won't be the last.

It's actually quite amazing how there can be so many conflicts of characters on here - sometimes good and sometimes not so good. Everyday I learn something new

I was attempting to make a point of that, even tho I don't like her personality on here as it were, (I never claim to know anyone with any assuredness) she sounded sincere, altho I'm prolly not the best judge of that either....

Pillowcase, I beg to differ with what you say tho - if you can form an opinion about aspects of people you are judging by your own preferences what you like or dislike about them.

We make calculated judgements everyday about a variety of things, that are pleasing to us, about people we see and interact with and how we drive a car etc...

I think I was trying to say the same thing as Vix. I make judgements about people's personalities as well, though I try to give everyone a fair chance and not write them off from the getgo. But if there are enough qualities in a person that I find difficult to deal with, if they're particularly garrulous or quarrelsome just for the sake of being, if there's enough things to dislike about a person, then isn't it fair to say you basically dislike that person?

I've been unintentionally mean, as well, I suppose, in posting things about people that I found troublesome, or hurtful, or that I dislike. I don't do it, however, out of malice, which is what KerrAvon's posting here seemed to convey. Deliberately hurting, attacking, or making fun of a person is different from expressing a strong difference of opinion. And there is a time and a place where it's in good taste to keep one's opinions to one's self. I've had to do that myself a few times lately, in another conversation here I simply gave up and saw my out of because I'm just disgusted with some people's attitudes, and in RL with people who are making my life miserable because of their laziness and stupidity. Sometimes, it's prudent just to be a big enough person to keep your mouth shut and leave people alone, as KerrAvon should have done here.

Psychocandy and Vixen, you are both welcome to disagree with me of course!

I just, personally, do not easily decide that I don't like someone. There *are* people around that, to me, seem like total a**holes. I think the thing is, over here in South Africa, I've seen such absolutely mind-boggling degrees of a**hole behaviour that the stuff I see here on h2g2 seems to me relatively minor ...

For the record, I think KerrAvon's posting was a jibe at me, as well ...

Well anyway...'s all round I'm not one for group hugs in person, on here it seems ok and non-threatening

As to the beginning topic, I still stand by what I said about child abusers

The funny thing is that I got talking to Az again.

Then one ay she told me her name for her diety, which was Fred. I laughed because I thought it was brilliant and witty. Afterall spirituality is a very personal thing, so to choose a name with personal meaning is a great way to make it yours.

She however choose to interpret my laughter as me making fun. It was quite the opposite and she never let me explain that.

So I got over her siding with someone making fun of childhood abuse, yet she never stayed around to hear an explanation. Who tried to make the friendship work and who dropped it so very easily?

Just thought I would update the convo as I tidy up and delete stuff.

Hi Kaz

Time makes midgets of us all.

Az ia atill around, though not as much as once. Perhaps you should visit her page and talk to her.

Blessings,
Matholwch .