h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I've been following the argument about moderation since it all began but haven't felt strongly enough to post. But it has got to the point (and having a bit of spare time) where I've finally got the urge to put in my opinion. If it comes across as sounding a little aggressive, I apologise well in advance.

What I fail to understand about the Zaphodistas is this. The e-group mourned the loss of h2g2 when it closed earlier this year with a depth of feeling you would've thought more applicable to a national catastrophe or the accidental running over of your mother with a steam roller. Their lives were emptier than an underwear drawer when you're three days late going to the laundrette. It wasn't an enthralling place to discuss anything.

Then it came back only because the beeb had bought it. So that saved us all from the alarming possibility of never seeing our home pages again. And I was pleased, along with a lot of other people, cos it is a nice place to drop into and chat.

Then the wailing about moderation started.

Yes, it has changed things a little. Ok, it's a hassle having to post a link on your homepage if you want to direct someone somewhere but it's not the most arduous thing in the world to achieve. Ok, so you can't swear. (But as Ed Byrne said, if you have to swear to make people laugh you're a ****!) And protecting copyrighted material that belongs to other people is, in my opinion, an excellent thing. If I'd written a damn good book, I wouldn't want all or part of it used without my permission.

You seem to labour under the delusion that;
1. This is an imposition that is going to blight your creative powers so they shrivel up and die. If you haven't got the imagination to work round restrictions, then your creative juices can only have been dripping rather than flowing anyway.

2.That if you whine long enough Aunite is going to throw up her hands in horror and say "Yes, you were right all along. Slap my thigh and call me Adolph. Have the whole thing back the way it used to be."

This, I'm sorry to say, isn't going to happen. The beeb could close this place down tomorrow and never open it again. We could all drift away and the place be left to howling winds and tumble weeds - they wouldn't blink an eye. What you essentially fail to understand in all this twisted rhetoric about what is or isn't a right and how many we've got, is the bbc are far too big to care about your mosquito bite comments.

One of the main reasons things are a little slow round here these days is cos so many people are spending their time lying around, be-moaning the inevitable. And frankly it's boring. "Get over it" is the best advice there is. There will be no riding off into the sunset after setting the virtual world to rights. You're just gonna be left, cantankerous and querulous, having bored the pants off the rest of the community.

But that's just my thoughts!

There was a group on h2g2 before BBC called GerMania Connection. The group is still here, but they can't very well engage in discussion of German like they used to due to the new House Rules regarding language. Some of those people have rightfully quit, because h2g2 is fundamentally less useful and less functional than it used to be. On the web, there's a great potential for interaction between people from all over the world, and BBC has wasted that potential because they're too afraid of people slipping swear words from other languages into conversations. Ignoring the fact that they could preserve their good and wholesome image if they used reactive moderation (censoring stuff after people complained) like most other online communities, BBC just wants to have total control over everything that goes through h2g2. I think part of the reason for this is that BBC thinks this is a broadcast, something that they should fully monitor before releasing it to the public. They don't understand the monstrous difference between a tv show and an online community.

But their motivations don't matter as much as the effects of these new rules. Instead of letting this community grow with a big international audience, they cut that potential right out. This is not only bad for h2g2 researchers who want to learn other languages or meet people from across the globe. It's bad for the community, for the whole website, to limit the appeal of the site so much.

This was one of the first major travesties of the new restrictions imposed under the BBC. I'm not as concerned about swearing (which they had rules against pre-BBC) or legitimate copyright issues (please don't pursue this straw-man argument, because Zaphodistas have never asked for copyright rules to be repealed on h2g2) or the stupid workarounds we have to use for posting URLs. Even the rule against putting external images on our h2g2 guide entries, which limits the functionality of this site for anyone who expresses themselves visually, and which is allowed on every other online community, is not as ugly as the restrictions against language and the latest big hiccup -- the rules around the UK General Election.

When Douglas Adams wrote his Welcome message two years ago, saying you could "create your own Guide Entries containing anything you want, from your opinions of world events to a description of your home town..." I'm convinced that he did not expect all discussion of the UK General Election to be hidden on the day of the election, nor "heavy" discussion hidden or deleted in the months running up to the election. This is the saddest restriction inspired by BBC, the clearest sign that free expression is not as important at h2g2 as protecting the Beeb against phantasmal threats to their brand image. And it's the clearest sign that censorship will be used in other topics whenever they seem necessary to BBC, for the most unreasonable excuses. How could our discussions of the election, even if they were pages and pages of spam by paid party hacks, constitute bias by the BBC, when the bottom of every page of h2g2 clearly states "The majority of content on h2g2 is generated by h2g2's Researchers, who are members of the public. The views expressed are theirs and unless specifically stated are not those of the BBC."?

These are my main complaints about the new restrictions on h2g2, and I think they are reasonable complaints. Posting in other languages and discussing politics is done constantly to no ill effect on thousands of other online communities. There is nothing so special about BBC that they should need to restrict us in these ways, if they really want h2g2 to remain competitive or viable.

I'm grateful that the BBC brought back most of the old h2g2 (some of it still hidden). I'm glad they reactivated the site with most of the functionality it had before. (Again, think of "function" in terms of the ways communication is limited by censorship. If a site won't let you communicate what you want, then it isn't as useful to you.) But I am sad that they intentionally limited what we can talk about, and that these changes will harm the community and the website by not allowing it to grow, putting off new people who might have joined the community.

"What you essentially fail to understand in all this twisted rhetoric about what is or isn't a right and how many we've got, is the bbc are far too big to care about your mosquito bite comments."

Please see the list of names at the bottom of the main Zaphodistas page, 177 people who have signed their agreement with that original rant. http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A520769

Please see the signatures to the Petition for Greater Freedom on h2g2 at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A544943

This is not just my opinion. These are the complaints of a growing number of people who feel that h2g2 has unreasonable restrictions, who would like to see this site working the way it used to so they don't have to find a different site that really works.

We could compare 177 disgruntled researchers with the 80,000+ researchers registered so far. But some of those 80,000 have signed up once and forgotten about it. Some of them have quit for other reasons. And the only way to check the number of active researchers is to click on WHO'S ONLINE. Most times when you check that, you'll see a few that explicitly list "Zaphodista" or the "Petition at A544943" in their nickname. Better yet, take a look at the h2g2 statistics page at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/info and see how many Zaphodistas show up on the lists of "Most postings in 24 hours" or "Longest postings in 24 hours." Maybe this just means we're loudmouths. Maybe it means we're active members of the community.

"One of the main reasons things are a little slow round here these days is cos so many people are spending their time lying around, be-moaning the inevitable."

This is interesting because you say "so many people." I thought our opinions were a "mosquito bump" a minute ago? How do you reconcile the idea that our opinions only amount to a "mosquito bump" against the great BBC, when you also believe that there are "so many" of us complaining that it has effectively slowed down the whole website?

If you're bored by our protests, please visit one of the many other guide entries on h2g2. Click on "READ" and see what's new. Or follow your own advice and "Get over it."

First of all, it is rather amusing that someone who wants the freedom to express themselves, accuses another person of trolling. As I said, I'd followed the arguments all along and found much of what I wanted to say expressed admirably by other friends and researchers already. I could see no point to gilding the lilly, as it were. What I posted earlier is what I believe to be true, not an attempt to stir up another argument, which was why I deliberately started a new thread.

You did seem to miss the point of what I was trying to say. Moderation, like it or loathe it or just not really give a toss either way, has happened. And yea, Douglas Adams did sell his only begotten web-site to the BBC to do as they wished with it. Yes, DNA's welcoming message told you the guide could contain whatever you liked but that was when DNA was the owner. It is no good asking for these 'promises' to be honoured when the site is now under someone else's control. To drag up another tired analogy from the last few weeks - If the landlord of your local declares Thursday night to be darts night, then Thursday night it is. When he retires and the new darts-hating person takes over and bans the game out of hand, it's useless trying to fight your corner by quoting the former owner.

When I said that your complaints were mosquito bites, I did indeed mean as compared to the bbc as a corporation. "So many people" moaning on h2g2 is a large number of researchers on h2g2. The two things are seperate issues entirely. I'm sure it must be most gratifying for newbies to find out they've joined a community which is, according to the longest posts listed, rubbish in comparison to the good old days. Wow, that'll keep 'em coming! They may even be tempted to go elsewhere on the W.W.W. (Yes, it's true there is more to the internet than this one site! You don't sail off the virtual edge of technology into the pit of hell if you log out!! Shocking but true.)

You proved my point very neatly by highlighting the fact that this one-sided argument you're having with a silent Beeb is the 9 day wonder for the community at the minute. You can make as lengthy a post as you like but it's just going round in circles. If someone disagrees with you (as a group; this isn't intended as a personal attack.) then more reasons why the bbc are pants are the only answers which come back. In the end the dissenters will be making their posts but only their 176 comrades in arms will be listening.

I only wanted to express my thoughts, which is what I did. I don't care if I can post in German here or not. If that's what I want to do I'll go somewhere where I can interact with German speaking people. But I'll come back here because it's one of the many communites which exist on the web. To belong to one does not mean I can't join others elsewhere. And if I want to come in late to an argument here I damn well will!


Thanks for the tip but I don't need lessons in how to use the guide; I've been managing quite happily for well over a year now. Equally when I can't do what I want here, I'll go somewhere else on the web to appease my desires. And then again when I want to achieve something which the web can't cater for I'll switch off my PC and go out into the real world for a bit.

You started off nicely in that first post, but here's some evidence of trolling or flaming, or a flaming troll:

"You seem to labour under the delusion..."

"...That if you whine long enough Aunite is going to throw up her hands in horror and say "Yes, you were right all along. Slap my thigh and call me Adolph. Have the whole thing back the way it used to be."

"What you essentially fail to understand in all this twisted rhetoric about what is or isn't a right and how many we've got, is the bbc are far too big to care about your mosquito bite comments."

"You're just gonna be left, cantankerous and querulous, having bored the pants off the rest of the community."

If you're not careful, a moderator might remove your comments for violating the House Rules: "On h2g2, flaming means posting something that's angry and mean-spirited - the online equivalent of flying off the handle."

"First of all, it is rather amusing that someone who wants the freedom to express themselves, accuses another person of trolling."

To the best of my knowledge, no Zaphodistas have asked for the freedom to troll or flame people on h2g2.

To summarize: I got your point. Heard it before. Frequently. Disagree with it.

Hello subcom and B and CG.

If not to be angry and not to be "mean-spirited" why have you a page that make hurt to Texans? http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A255485

Texas is very nice place has very nice people. I have many friends Texans. A friend see your page and tell me that it make him hurt (angry).

I have guess you make joke. It is not joke for my friend. He tell me that it is raceist (spelling? he use other word I do not know).

q

Sorry if that's the tone you read my comments in. That's the problem of text-based exchange; that people can assume a tone in the reading which was not intended in the writing. The origianl title of the thread could have presented a small clue.

I don't consider it a case of having flown off the handle. I've followed the debate, I've reached conclusions and I've taken the time to post them.

As to my choice of language - I enjoy using the English language in an imaginative manner and think the dictionary definitions justify the words I chose.

Whine - to utter complainingly

Delusion - a false belief or opinion. (though that is relative to my point of view.)

Cantankerous - bad tempered. Which you could possibly become if you don't achieve your ends. I don't accuse you of being cantankerous now but at a future point.

Querulous - complaining peevishly (See above.)

Peevish (to save further confusion.) - irritable.

The mosquito reference was intended as an analogy of relative size as I tried to illustrate in my last post.

And the choice of the name Adolph seemed appropriate as you consider that the rules layed down by the BBC stifle opinion. In a similar way tototalitarian states repress alternative ideas.

None of it was written in anger, and I certainly didn't post in a mean spirited mood. My style of writing obviously doesn't translate well in your case. But if you chose to accept in that manner, that's your affair.

To summarise. I disagree with you. Consistently. You chose to be offended.

Q,

I'm willing to admit that the "Reasons to Avoid Texas" pages may be mean-spirited or angry, but I'm concerned that anyone would consider them racist. If you would like to discuss this by email, I would like to hear what parts you or your friend thought were racist. My email address is [email protected].

I wrote those pages after living in Houston for a year. They don't seem as amusing now, and they've only brought me a lot of angry responses from Texans. So I'm going to remove them from h2g2.

The pages will still be on the web elsewhere, and I would like to discuss this with you or your friend if you are still interested.