h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"bloodline curse"

Bloodline could mean genetic.
Curse is what they think of it (homosexuality).

Presumably what they mean by "cursed" is that it is not recommended in the Old Testament. In the NT I believe Jesus, forever tolerant it seems, has no words on the matter - although there are a few words from Paul I believe who didn't recommend it.

When they were talking about homosexuality - I suppose you could have mentioned the Ancient Greeks, Olympic games with oiled up naked men, brotherly love, brotherly love between men that were not brothers ... e.g. Rolf Harris' two little boys song: Two little boys had two little toys ... Gaily they played each summer's day ... (the tree of knowledge has a lot to answer for).

PS: I would tend to just go along with the discussion making a few comments here and there, maybe questioning what they meant by that and this ... ultimately examining how they think on the matter. It is also fair to say that some have a visceral reaction against it when there innocent minds imagines and visualises what homosexuality acts might involve. Maybe they could draw sketches and details as to what they think it might involve - it could be therapeutic and entirely appropriate for the art class.

Hi folks and thanks for all the comments! The thing is, I know where these people are coming from since I was in a very conservative church myself for most of my life. Therefore I have a good idea exactly what they will think if I say this or I say that. It’s true that reality is not established democratically, but any specific person’s idea of reality is in ‘real life’ weighed against the ideas of others. In this case I was outnumbered but not only that, I was ‘outclassed’ … the people in the art class with me are all rich and successful in many ways so they have power and they can use that power against others, and against me also. In fact they could kill me if they wished … not by stabbing or shooting me, but by saying: “Willem is against God – don’t buy his art”. Since I live by my art, that would kill me.

See, I *would* love to actually be able to change people’s minds but as it is my first priority is survival!

I tried to moderate views by speaking of the example of two gay cousins of mine. The one’s family accepted him and he’s now very successful and by all accounts happy, and I am in contact with him and hear how it’s going every now and then. The other cousin’s family was outraged by his orientation and condemned him; he had terrible mental health problems and eventually cut off all links with his family … his parents, his brothers … and I have no idea where in the world he is now, or what he is doing, or even if he is still alive. And that to me is a tragedy and things like that happen all over this country, still. I tried to convey something of that tragedy to the class.

I also tried to convey how it is not due to parenting that kids ‘turn gay’ … the parenting of these two cousins couldn’t have been more different.

But anyways. I cannot go directly against what preachers and authorities say … I would want to but I am aware of the depth of indoctrination and just what would be necessary to upset it … which would be traumatic, I really mean profoundly traumatic. For a person to realize how s/he’s been deceived and brainwashed carries a tremendous cost. I’ve been through it myself! As much as I want to disrupt this brainwashing, I am not in a situation where I can do it. I am voiceless and powerless whereas the people who perpetrate this brainwashing are the authority figures. They’re preachers who stand in front of congregations of dozens, hundreds, sometimes thousands, all of whom are willing to believe their every word. They’re the ones writing Christian books read by thousands. They’re the ones holding seminars on Biblical values and living. They carry the authority of ‘Men (yes, pretty much men only) of God’. Who the hell am I? I am *known* to be crazy! And even if I weren’t … I would start by saying that I don’t know the 100% truth, that I’m not absolutely certain of my position … whereas the ‘Men of God’ start out by saying they are witnesses to God’s own 100% truth. How can I compete against that?

The thing is … to do anything, anything at all against homophobic views, I cannot avoid having to speak about the source. Suppose in class I had said, ‘I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being gay’. The next word would be “but the Bible says so here, here and here.” Then I would be silenced … I cannot tell them they’re misinterpreting those verses because I don’t know they are, for all I know the people who wrote those parts of the Bible really did mean to condemn homosexual relations … even if only a certain kind. I don’t really know what sexuality was and how it was understood 2000 years ago. We can surmise. In Roman and Greek society there was a lot of intimacy between people of the same sex … but they, too, had a different understanding of the nature of it than us people of today. But as translated in Afrikaans the Bible texts seem clear to be condemning men lusting after other men and engaging in sex with them, and the same for women. So it is hard to get around those texts *unless* the very authority of the Bible is impugned … which is my actual position, since I believe that it is still just a book written by humans … written, compiled, edited, translated and interpreted by humans. So there’s no point for me in twisting texts to either mean one thing or another, when we can simply decide not to attach too much *importance* to those texts, instead using our own minds and the specifics of what is going on *today*, not 2000 years ago, and use logic and evidence and our own powers of judgement.

But that is the very thing I cannot say. People will be outraged if I do … and they will *not* change their minds, all they will think is that I am a victim of anti-Christian indoctrination and also now their enemy.

The situation is: South Africa has become ‘liberalized’ over the past three decades. But intrinsically people still are attached to the ‘old days’ and the ‘old ways’ because there’s comfort in familiarity. Now we are hearing more of and from the outside world, and that frightens people when it comes in conflict with their world views. A result is that people become more defensive and cling to the old ideas even harder. Even while here in South Africa we’ve seen an influx of new and liberal ideas in the church, at the same time the church has grown more ‘fundamentalist’ also. We never really spoke of evolution in the old days … like the Roman Catholic church, there was acceptance for the idea (evolution, but still under God’s guidance). There were conservative and liberal streams in the church, and it was simply a matter of taste, and whether your own congregation had a conservative or liberal preacher. But now, these things are presented as being a serious threat … liberalism, evolution, feminism, things like that are now taken very seriously as being dangerous because many Christians are now *seeing* the churches dwindling, and hearing all these new ideas. In the old days the church was so firm, no-one would have thought it was under any threat, and no-one heard these threatening ideas anywhere either. So the people still in the church today, being aware of all these threatening things, cling to their ‘certainties’ so much harder.

Take this ‘blood curse’ thing. Now as I understand it, as it is expressed in the Afrikaans language, ‘curse’ means there must be *someone* who has put a curse on someone else. A ‘bloodline curse’ therefore means a curse has been put on a ‘bloodline’ … it would necessarily extend over generations and generations of people. Now who or what could curse people like this? God? If so, then it means homosexual people are under a curse from God which extends before and after their own births, encompassing parents, siblings, future generations etc. Or if you don’t want to believe God could do such a thing, it must be Satan! So either you ascribe a kind of horrifying maliciousness to God, or you endow Satan with terrifying power. If not God or Satan, who? People? Is witchcraft and voodoo real, then? That would still involve Satan though, and God too – for allowing it. But the thing is – there is NOTHING in the Bible giving any sort of support to the idea of a ‘bloodline curse’. I have read it several times cover to cover. Calling homosexuality a bloodline curse is making up entirely new things that ‘sort of’ sound like they might fit in with a 2000-year-old world view … and that’s my most generous view of it! More realistically I would say these people are really going nuts because they have no choice but to try and shoehorn things into the ‘Biblical’ view that’s been forced onto them by preachers, teachers and parents for so long. And that is the huge danger. We are seeing entirely new things coming into existence … some of these things might be great, others might be harmful, but we are prepared for none of them by the Bible, so the people who seek all the answers there will be left confounded and like the above might very well start making all sorts of things up to tie Biblical pronouncements to present situations … no matter how tenuous the connections are. And I believe I know what would be happening in their own minds – because I went through a lot of that myself. The contradictions keep multiplying and straining the very fabric of the mind … there is too much denial of actual reality and the false image of absolute truth gets infused with more and more power to try and combat the feelings of being lost and confused and overwhelmed by things you cannot understand simply because *you’re not allowed to*.

Never mind how much I want to tell the people this, I cannot. Do you think they’d sit and listen to me explain it like that? The ‘defenses’ of the brainwashing will kick in long before I get to my actual point. They will not understand because they’re not allowed to! If they were allowed to they would long ago have figured it out themselves! The entire authority structure is way too powerful and it holds people’s minds in thrall. As much as I hate this situation – I don’t hate people, I want to help them, I want to make them happy – but in this case, me opposing their brainwashing is not going to be feasible: I am not strong enough to help them, and even if I succeeded in persuading them, that will leave *them* in the same traumatic situation as I am in now: suddenly aware of how many lies they’ve been believing for so long, suddenly aware of having been used and abused. It is – I am very sure of that because I feel it myself – every bit as traumatic as realizing you’ve been sexually abused by parents, teachers, preachers or other authority figures. It is realizing that you’ve actually not been on the side of goodness … it is realizing that what you used to consider as good, is actually evil … it is to realize you’ve been serving the wrong side all along … and with all those things you realize, you also realize that, before, you were a member of a group with whom you shared ideas … for allowing yourself to be brainwashed, you were allowed a share in the power and authority. You’ve even had their love … or the illusion of love. Now that you realize you’ve been brainwashed, you are suddenly outside … alone and powerless, afraid, uncertain – because although you now realize your old certainties were false, you are unable to find new certainties to replace them … you realize now that *nothing* could ever be absolutely certain for you again. You are now alone out in the cold, in the rain, in the dark … your entire world-view has been turned upside down and inside out. And now you must survive like that … you must find something to replace what you had, you must find your own truth and meaning … and you must do that while society, while life, does absolutely nothing to help you and almost everything to thwart you. You’re on the wrong end of things now. You’re now facing the discrimination you once dispensed so righteously yourself. You’ve become that which you once feared.

But despite how hard the above is … personally I would say people should take the plunge, bite the bullet. I’ve done it. I know how hard it is but I did it. It’s major spiritual surgery without an anaesthetic. I don’t know if it can be done bit-by-bit. I know there are people who are trying. There are Christian churches who try and tell their members to be accepting, not to condemn people for their sexual orientation, to not interpret those particular texts that particular way. Perhaps that works … and for that matter I try and convey to Christians that their own biggest commandment, as pointed out by Jesus Christ himself, is love: love of God AND love of other people. But just accepting homosexual people while still having a lot of the other kinds of intolerance is, for me, not enough. It’s propping up a house the timber of which is rotting. Best thing is to get out completely before the thing collapses. But that’s just my own view … others will sincerely believe things can be patched up piece by piece.

To get back to the situation at the art class. I know well enough from long ago that most Christian people in my country are homophobic, it’s just that I was thinking of what some of you said about artistic people being more liberal and openminded … so I was just dismayed to be reminded again that even in this circle there’s so much prejudice, along with almost caricature-like levels of ignorance.

Oh and one more thing, we actually have a gay class member, or at least had – but he dropped out recently because of his work schedule. So just based on that I would have expected more sensitivity from my fellow class members.

It's sad, really.

Yes it's sad Dmitri. But I am realising now ... my class mates are not *that* bad, I'm reflecting the situation in general onto them, I mean the overt homophobia still out there. In other sections of South African society it is much worse than in my art class. There's no one in class beating up gay boys or raping lesbian girls. They disapprove of it based on biblical grounds but will still be civil to gay people. Yesterday we again spoke of it, again there was an artsy event where there were some gay folks and this time the conversation was more sensitive. One even made a comment about someone wearing something pink and said 'a little bit gay is OK'. Not perfect but at least not completely nasty!

Also, these days there is enough tolerance that people can be openly gay, which is great progress from the Apartheid times. I learn of another old acquaintance, the son of a colleague of my father's at the university of the North, who's also now married to another guy. He's a respected musician here and also plays and sings *in church*.

That's encouraging, Willem.

I think so Dmitri!

All right, new developments. Saw the psychologist and the psychiatrist this week. Psychiatrist thinks things are going well. With the psychologist I've been having an interesting discussion. She thinks that I should try and make more young friends ... or at least my own age. Most of my friends are much older than me, in their sixties at least! Do any of you think this is a problem? One part that is a bit of a problem for me is that because my parents both died in their mid-sixties makes me worry for my older friends! But anyways ... the psychologist said it's perhaps because of my weird situation that I'm making more older friends. Most people my age are still heavily into their careers and have children that are not yet independent. I don't have children, no demanding career ... my psychologist spoke of how people my age who are into a career are at this stage making some serious progress, getting some serious success.

I'm completely out of this sort of loop. I don't have a career ... I have things that I do because I think they're worthwhile, and I don't really make money from them, I just about manage financially, but there's no comparison to people who have 'successful' careers.

But anyways I spoke about this career sort of lifestyle with my psychologist. She, as I suspected, works a heck of a lot. She doesn't even have time to read books. My sister is also very busy, her husband even busier. As far as I know they don't have friends, they hardly ever visit anyone except for family. And I really started wondering then ... if this is what people with successful careers are like then no wonder I don't ever meet any of them, they're too busy! Now ... do any of you think I should try harder to find young people to be friends with, or should I consider it all right that I have several older friends and just continue to try to be a good friend to them?

I think it is fine to have to have older friends. In fact great, friends are friends however they come

It is not and either/or is it?

The other thing I would say is not to 'try' to hard to make friends, be open to the people you meet in life and the possibility of friendship with whoever that may turn out to be.

Going with the goal, the aim of making friends particularly friends of a type of category, for me sounds to be too forced and prescriptive and human interactions don't work like, I think

Put yourself in as wide range of social situations as you are able where that may happen.

But go along with the aim of enjoying what you are doing,with your friendly demeanour, try and experience what it is, not what it could be and hopefully you will strike up a friendship with someone, *if* it happens.

I also worry if you set the the goal of making friends, you may miss out on a range of social interactions.

There are people that I am friendly with, but I wouldn't call them a friend in the same way as say you, or Vic, another lovely friend are,
but I still value having these 'friendly people' in my life, to pass the time of day when we cross paths.

Willem, I have sent about sixty Christmas cards out to people I have known for decades, some were friends of my family and are now on their own, and others are new members of my circle.

Some I regard as friends, others as colleagues from work and voluntary work, some from h2g2, and many others are not a great deal more than casual acquaintances, but I value them all Some I only hear from at Christmas and a few on birthdays too.

To be honest I doubt they would mix well socially, but I value the different views, opinions, religions and races, and ages. from teens to nineties.

As an only child it took me years to realise that other people did not see friendship as all important as I did, holding them to me and frightened to lose them, but more as a fluid thing.

I now meet up with people I may not have seen or spoken to for years, yet we pick up where we left off as if there has been no gap, and I think that is true friendship.

Of course, you learn who are real friends in adversity, but even the lesser ones have a value.

Unfortunately, you have to mix freely with all sort to see who suits you, so good luck with the support you are getting, I hope it helps.

Websailor