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The Mayans
Gnomon - time to move on Started conversation Feb 7, 2005
I've been reading up on writing systems throughout the world, in two very interesting books, "The Story of Writing" by Andrew Robinson and "The Story of Decipherment" by Maurice Pope. They both have sections on Mayan writing, which I find very interesting.
One thing I've discovered from reading these is that the Mayan Calendar, which I've always been told was the most accurate one ever devised by man, was not accurate at all. It used a value of 365 for the number of days in the year, which meant that the seasons moved by a quarter day relative to the calendar every year. This is as accurate as the one used by the Ancient Egyptians, but not as good as the Julian calendar introduced by the Romans, or the Gregorian calendar that we use. Mind you, their calendar did make very detailed predictions about which days were lucky and unlucky. I have no way of checking whether they were right about that or not. But I suspect not.
I went to write all this up, but find that there's already an entry in the Guide on the Mayan Calendar, written by Joanna, so I'll have to update that one.
The Mayans
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Feb 7, 2005
Is this all mixed up with Von Däniken? The belief that the ancients had access to pre-lapsarian knowledge? But ignoring inconvenient truths such as that they screwed up their local eco system and engaged in a death cult based around human sacrifice.
Another example is Inca building skills. The crypto-archaeologists speak with wonder about the intricate, precise way they fitted together huge, irregularly shaped blocks of stone. But when you look around the back, you realise they were rather slapdash.
Similarly Stonehenge. If you do all sorts of compliacated calculations you can obtain bogus fits between the alignment of selected stones and selected features in the surroundings with selected astronomical cycles. One such theory included the alignment with a mound which was precisely on the horizon when viewed from a certain location within the circle. Upon excavation, the mound was revealed to be a Victorian rubbish heap.
The Mayans
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Feb 7, 2005
There's an ancient site in England which is a map of Orion, proving that the ancients held this constellation in great esteem. Or at least, it is of Orion's belt. That is, it has three mounds which are in a line.
At one stage, people thought that the Mayans were a peaceful civilisation that were content to live in their jungles and gaze at the stars. Now we know that they were as bloodthirsty as any of the other Central American civilisations. Even their creation myths are pretty gruesome by our standards.
For example, one of the gods was beheaded, but his dismembered head managed to spit semen into the hands of a passing maiden who then became pregnant. Another myth has the human race coming from the blood of Lord Jaguar, who stabbed himself in the penis in a ritual bloodletting ceremony. The Mayans were big into bloodletting and self torture.
What's "pre-lapsarian"?
The Mayans
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Feb 7, 2005
I was just thinking...that's twice in one week that I've typed 'pre-lapsarian'. It's 'before the fall' or 'before Eve ate the apple' - the notion that earlier humans existed in this happy-clappy hippy-trippy state of harmony before they were corrupted by civilisation.
And as for ley lines - wouldn't it be weird if you *couldn't* find a few straight lines on a map?
The Mayans
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Feb 7, 2005
Actually, it more likely to be "before Eve stopped eating the apples". Our vegetarian ancestors probably were happy enough living in the trees on fruit. It is when they came down from the trees and started forming into packs and hunting meat that they probably started beating the shit out of each other as well. We've been at it ever since.
The Mayans
Gingersnapper+Keeper of the Cookie Jar and Stuff and Nonsense Posted Feb 8, 2005
Maybe the beating will end ...: Some question why the Mayan calander ends on Dec. 23,2012...??
By another estimate the calander ends on Oct. 28,2011................. Why..??...
The Mayans
Cefpret Posted Feb 8, 2005
My text editor says about Dec. 24, 2012: "Mayan date: Long count = 13.0.0.0.3; tzolkin = 7 Akbal; haab = 6 Kankin"
And concerning Oct. 29, 2011: "Mayan date: Long count = 12.19.18.15.1; tzolkin = 1 Imix; haab = 9 Zac"
Both results don't look like "overflows". And yes, I use a strange editor program.
The Mayans
Gingersnapper+Keeper of the Cookie Jar and Stuff and Nonsense Posted Feb 8, 2005
My question 'Why' was not refering to why different dates...Tho thats is what it sounded like.....
But why the calandar ends? Did they just get tired calculating..?? Did thoes who knew astronomy die..??
Or as some like to 'wonder' do the worlds all come to and end and so they had nothing more to add to the calandar....................................But whatever, in 7 years we will have the answer.......... ... ..
The Mayans
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Feb 8, 2005
Cefpret, we know how the Mayans calculated dates, but we don't the exact correspondance between their calendars. On one reckoning, the last day of the current era, which is as far as the calendar counts, will be 23 Dec 2012. So 24 Dec 2012 would be the first day of the next era. People have interpreted this as the end of the world, but people will interpret anything as the end of the world, given the chance.
The Mayans
Also Ran1-hope springs eternal Posted Feb 9, 2005
Well, I might just make it - the end of the world I mean.
In the meantime I am prepared to believe that the Mayans were wonderful, that Stonehenge is fantastic, and well, I do not know which calendar is the best!!. They all worked (work) after a fashiion.!
Ever hopeful, and starry eyed,
Also Ran1
The Mayans
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Feb 9, 2005
I have great respect for the achievements of Ancient People, Also Ran. I think the Mayans were amazing in what they did, and their system of recording dates is second to none. But I dislike the claims that these people, or the Egyptians, or whoever, were way beyond us in terms of ability.
The claim that the Mayan calendar is far more accurate than our one is often repeated by encyclopaedias. Their number system is described as as good as ours and predating it by millennia, when in fact it was not as good, and came after our one. Similar claims are made about the Egyptians: that they were able to build the pyramids to a greater precision than is possible today. Such claims are just untrue, and only serve to detract from the genuine amazing achievements of these ancient civilisations.
The Mayans
Woodpigeon Posted Feb 9, 2005
In a similar vein you could add that the Bible is a truly amazing document, providing insight into the thoughts, beliefs and knowledge of ancient peoples; but when people start to read into it things such as it's so-called ability to predict future events, or to state that it is the absolute authority on all things known, they are doing it a disservice.
The Mayans
Cefpret Posted Feb 9, 2005
What I wanted to say: If 24 Dec 2012 means anything special, I would expect that the date has some sort of symmetry -- like our 1.1.2000. However, it misses that by a few days.
The Mayans
Cefpret Posted Feb 9, 2005
I forgot to say something about the original posting, regarding the accuracy of the Mayan calendar:
I don't know whether this applies to the Mayan calendar, but some calendar systems don't try to yield an accurate *year* but *month*. This is especially true for cultures close to the equator, where the influences of seasons are minor. The Arabian calendar e.g. is a pure lunar calendar. The Hebrew calendar also has strong lunar components.
The Mayans
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Feb 9, 2005
Sorry, Cefpret. I forgot to say it. By one reckoning, 24 Dec 2012 is (13.0.0.0.0) in the Mayan calendar. That's pretty symmetrical. But by another reckoning it's off by 2 days.
The Mayans
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Feb 9, 2005
The Mayan didn't attempt to match either the moon or the sun in their calendar.
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The Mayans
- 1: Gnomon - time to move on (Feb 7, 2005)
- 2: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Feb 7, 2005)
- 3: Gnomon - time to move on (Feb 7, 2005)
- 4: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Feb 7, 2005)
- 5: Gnomon - time to move on (Feb 7, 2005)
- 6: Gingersnapper+Keeper of the Cookie Jar and Stuff and Nonsense (Feb 8, 2005)
- 7: Cefpret (Feb 8, 2005)
- 8: Gingersnapper+Keeper of the Cookie Jar and Stuff and Nonsense (Feb 8, 2005)
- 9: Gnomon - time to move on (Feb 8, 2005)
- 10: Gingersnapper+Keeper of the Cookie Jar and Stuff and Nonsense (Feb 9, 2005)
- 11: Also Ran1-hope springs eternal (Feb 9, 2005)
- 12: Gnomon - time to move on (Feb 9, 2005)
- 13: Woodpigeon (Feb 9, 2005)
- 14: Cefpret (Feb 9, 2005)
- 15: Cefpret (Feb 9, 2005)
- 16: Gnomon - time to move on (Feb 9, 2005)
- 17: Gnomon - time to move on (Feb 9, 2005)
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