h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well its about quarter past eleven and my two year old daughter has finally gotten to sleep after many atrtemps on my part to keep her in bed she fell asleep on the couch.I have found that is she is awake then I am incredibly tired and can hardly keep my eyes open but the minute she falls asleep I suffer from insomnia and so I turn on the computer and don't turn it off untill I realise that its 3 in the morning and I have to get up early the next day. I start to think "Does anyone else suffer from something like this or am I a solatary case?"
Eala

Hi,
OK, so there are loads of reasons your daughter (Jordan, isn't it?) doesn't want to go to sleep. (I have one daughter who slept like a dream - still does - since 9 weeks old, and one who is nocternal but I'm "training" it out of her). There is a great book here in Germany (only in German, though) which gives a great programme of training (because, believe me, it can be done!) kids to sleep.

1st thing is: make sure she's not ill. Sounds obvious, but not wanting to sleep is a sign that something is not quite right.
2nd thing: do you give her something to take to bed (teddy, security blanket, dummy)?
3rd thing: does she take a bottle of milk to bed, or drink milk right beforehand?
4th thing: does she have her own room?
5. erm. I'll get on with it.

So, basically the kids have to have a routine. Which never ever changes (although, in my experience if you're away from home it's ok to do other stuff, provided that at home it's the same routine. And, you can vary the times a bit.) For eg. we do it like this:
evening meal about 6:30pm (if they eat it)
little bit of singing/dancing/playing
pyjamas teeth cleaned
bottle / drink of milk (depending on which child it is, and btw my daughters go to bed at the same time in the same room)
I close the blinds Eveline switches on the light (this is important for her)
Saskia gets in bed and makes space for Eveline (who sleeps in a cot)
Bedtime story - always only one - and kids drink their milk
Eveline helps me put the book away, Saskia gets settled with the permanent teddy and one guest toy
Eveline gets put in cot (with teddy, empty bottle and dummy)
night light and music on
I kiss them on each cheek, twice
Then I leave the room, leaving the door ajar and the hallway light on.

That's it. I only go back in the room in the case of extreme screaming, and then I don't pick up the daughter. Just talk to them, maybe stroke the cheek. It's important only to stay in the room for 2 minutes.

The training went like this: make a routine which you can all live with and then stick to it. It may need refinements. The first couple of nights it's really hard. Sometimes the crying is pitiful. (the book recommends no milk right before bedtime because the digestion can keep children awake). if they start to shout and scream (not "little" crying) you wait 2 minutes, then go in the room staying only for 2 minutes. Then you leave the room. Then you wait 3 minutes. Then go back in. Then 4, 5, 6 minutes. The longest time between "visits" should only be 7 minutes. Apparently using this model most children go to sleep (and stay asleep) after an average of 5 days!! (5 days on the programme, that is!) Also it's important to pick your bedtime carefully (not too late if they get up early or don't take a nap during the day).

Anyway, maybe this helps?

Thank you for the advise , I think I may have to try it. Jordan is usually so good with sleep , since she was 4 months old she slept through the night and we had our routine but lately its been thrown out the window. She used to have dinner , have a bath , them it was time for some quiet play , a milk bottle and then bed with teddy and her blanky but them my mother came to stay for a while and spoilt her rotten and let her get away with murder, she gave her sweets all the time (usually she only gets sweets at birthdays and such like) and now we cant get her back into routine. I will try what you suggested and tell you wether its working or not in a few days
Eala

How's it going? Getting more sleep (although, judging by the fact that you're "trying" - probably not )
Ah, the grandma effect. We get that. And we only generally see the grandma once a year. It will be 2times this year (she's coming over next week) so I expect my monsters will do the same thing.
Another thing some people try is setting the bedtime 1 or 2 hours later (depending on the age of the child) and then bringing it forward by 10 or 15 minutes every other day.
It sounds hard but it really is a question of survival. I had to do lots of things to "encourage" Saskia to take an afternoon nap when I was pregnant with Eveline (because I needed it). Get ruthless, after all, you all have to learn to live together!! (also, shortening her afternoon nap can help to make her tired in the evening, and get her off to sleep better - not necessarily quicker - but doesn't help with nightly waking)

What have you done to Mr. Zeitgeist??? Haven't seen much of him recently!!!
Sho

I am still around,
But my time will soon vanish,
Look at my journal.

Zeitgeist

I posted a separate message. Just wanted, however, to check how Jordan is sleeping?
My two have just become night wanderers!! First Saskia gets in with me, then Eveline, then I end up in a heap on the floor. Life ain't fair

She is better about going to bed now but she keeps waking up at about 3-4 in the morning last night she woke up screaming , I don;t know wether it was gas or a bad dream but she wouldn't go back to sleep unless she was in bed with us which means a squashed night for us , she also has a habbit of laying across the bed and kicking you in the back (or front depending on what way your facing ) she also talks in her sleep we(Tom and I) woke this morning and she was laughing in her sleep ,at least she had a good dream
Eala

Night wandering. My faithful book has a lot to say about this. And it boils down to the fact that you have 2 choices:
1) you put up with (possibly uncomfortable) nights with a child in your bed (some people aren't bothered by it and they're told that this is ok)
2) you train her to go back to bed (this involves the same procedure as children who don't go to sleep in the first place).
Does she have a nightlight on all night? (this helps with one of mine)
Does she wake because the blanket slipped (or something similar) and she's cold? (all in one with feet pyjamas or a "baby" sleeping bag are good for this)
Of course, if you're still trying for #2 having #1 in your bed can be a bit awkward

I don't think she wakes up because she is cold and she used to go back to sleep but now when she wakes up its not just a little cry but and almighty scream, Im sure the neibours think we beat her(thats how loud she is) and yes she has interupted us before , ahhhh the joy of having kids
Eala

We got "interrupted" once by both of them jumping on us. Dread to think what a social worker would have made of that!!
All I can say is: it's probably not as loud as you think. And the neighbours don't even hear it, and if they do, they can come & entertain her 'till she goes back to sleep if they're worried about it
It's a phase. It will pass. It's a phase. It will pass. It's a phase. It will pass.
This is your new mantra: use it at times of stress.

CONGRATULATIONS !!! It wonderful that you are preggers ....IM so jealous! lol . You are the third person I know that is now pregnant any Ideas on names yet or is it too early? Your brave working so close to the expectant date , lets hope you pop at work,lol.
I keep chanting my mantra, I think it is sending Jordan to sleep when I hold her and say it .....maybe I will try singing her to sleep let me try *sings off key* LAlaLAlaLAla ...... bye bye pretty baby remember your my baby when they give you the eye , though I'll be gone for awhile I now that I'll be smiling with my baby by and By and by with my baby by and by * stops singing to everyone relief* maybe not .
The latest problem we have is Jordan has conjuctavitus ( yucky eye gunk) and has so kindly given it to me ,I have a cold and conjutavitus and generally fell like blah so Im going to leave it at that and go back to bed now
Bye
Eala

Wow! You lot are having a rough time of it. Probably just as well you're not "in the club" too, otherwise you'd be feeling really yukky. I was wondering whether or not to tell everyone here about my "good " (still not sure about that yet) news. I have my fingers crossed for you. What I did: go to a wedding, hold a baby, bingo! you're pregnant!