h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was last at the Reeperbahn about 6 years ago... but I remember it from my mis-spent youth (about 18 years ago) and it wasn't up to much. Although as a girly I suppose it didn't have that much to offer me... (not that I saw, anyway). But we used to go clubbing until about 5 or 6 am then go to the fish market (loads more to see than fish, and what a load of characters running the pitches) for breakfast. Then sober up and home to tell my dad about the great girly pyjama party at some friend's house (he never believed me, so I find out now!)

As to the bilingual kids I read yesterday that it is rare for bilingual kids to speak both languages to the same level. I can't really comment since I don't know too many truly bilingual adults - and they all seem perfect in all languages to me. Of course teaching immigrant kids in their mother-toungue is a good thing if they get a better education. But then, it does (don't all shoot me down here) put back the integration if they don't learn the language of the country to which they have emigrated. I'm a big BIG fan of learning as many languages (and usually some of the foreign culture too) because I think it ultimately leads to better understanding between all of us. Goodness knows we need it. Until we all get a

Well, it is the same with speaking the high language and dialect. It always sounds perfekt for foreigners, but there are very few who are capable to speak both.

I read once, that if you learn two languages as a child, the part of the brain used for language is used for both. If later you learn a new language, you get a new part of the brain as a center for that laguage.

And of course you mustn´t forget, that language is always in flow. Just think of how young people put in new words. Or how meanings change. "Geil" was a realy "bad" word to use. Now it is no problem.

That's true about the brain. A colleague of my husband's (an English Teacher) had an apoplexy or whatever it's called when the brain conks out. When he came round he could only speak English, which he had learned later in life and not by instinct, and couldn't speak his mother tongue because that half of the brain had been affected. He's OK now, although has to work reduced hours as concentration is still difficult. For years I have been humming and ha-ing about how to define bilingualism anyway: Ranging from true bilingualism, as described, both languages learned at your mother's breast and in the formative years and stored in the irrational side of the brain, right through to being basically monolingual but having some grasp - either reading or speaking - of a second language. To my mind it is the first, and only the first. I do not consider myself a bilingual although I speak more than two languages and in the case of English and German I - with all modesty - can even say that I am better than my kids, who I would consider bilingual, although they have to search for words in English and get their syntax wrong. It is not something that we should dwell on, this definition, but just get on and promote any form of multilingualism which leads to more understanding among humans. What should not be allowed, is for "foreigners" to mess up a language they are not proficient in. Please see my plea for help "Words of Songs" http://www.h2g2.com/F19585?thread=59454 - I hope you two can help me here!

Hy everybody beeing interested in Hamburg and in Reeperbahn.

The Reeperbahn is not only a drug and tourist thing. There are the best pubs in town, there are - beside the tourists - the best party people in town, on weekends bands and stars like Prince, Simply Red and so on are jam sessioning - just for fun / Ok, only once a year :O)
And - of course - there are the most beautiful girls (taking their clothes off - great! Even for females like me!)
Nice drag queens too!

But the main part of peoply - of course beside the tourists! - are as normal as I am (am I?) and you are (I hope!)

If there are more questions, for Hamburg in general too, please type.

Greetings from Hamburg
Funkenmarie

Hi, I followed you from another forum and have been absolutely fascinated by the discussion.
My children are now men, but travelled with me until they were 13 & 10, thus picking up bits of other languages en route. It is certainly true that the earlier you start the more languages you can be good at. And over the years we have had lots of bilingual friends. A Finnish/American family found that the children spoke to all women in Finnish and all men in English until they were old enough to go to school, a Polish teacher of English spoke to his son in English only from the time he was born. I know several Hong Kong children who are Chinese/English bilingual (that's going to be a very useful combination).
Do keep it going. Do add the third language if you can (it's a guaranteed university entrance if that's the way you're going)Good luck to all your kids (they get progressively more interesting as they grow - mine are now the best friends anybody could have)

I bet you came in from the University Applications forum. I found your comments very interesting there. The question was originally posed for my oldest son who leaves school next year. He will no doubt go to University in Germany but I have planted the idea in his head that he should do a year during or after his time there at an English or American University.

Due to teachers shortages and illnesses, both my oldest had to give up their third language of French - although they really wanted to carry on. However, as they are both extremely good at Latin, that should open the way for at least half a dozen European languages when they need them.

Thanks definitely for the tip about waiting a year between school and university. I think it is very important, too. However, it is quite difficult here in Germany, especially for boys, as they leave school late here (19 or 20) and then have to do military service.

HI, Trillian´s Child! Long time no see!

The thing of doing a year in between isn´t that difficult, if you can persuade your boys to go and do a social year (if they are not off to do Zivildienst). Perticularly as boys do not normaly get to learn how to cope with children (girls stuff, you know what I mean?) this can be a good experience, if they go working in a Kinderheim, or simular (or youthhostel...) Also there is the posibility of doing a "Friedensdienst". I´ve met several who went to Israel in a Kibutz, or worked on schemes to preserve footpaths etc. Then there is the "freiwillige ökologische Jahr" So all you have to do is go and look for the broshures (Library is a good place to look)

I think it is about time, we hang the idea of streight careers, and believing, just because somebody is "young and dynamic" he will be able to do a good job. In socialwork you need a lot of experience to realy be able to do the job well. I was finished with my training as I was 22, but I only started to learn what my job ment from 26 onwards till today, and wow, I can still see a lot I´ve got to learn.

Hi. Well, I was on holiday. Did log in once on a wet day in Reading.

Thanks for confirming my views and all the useful info. Having been an au pair myself (in three countries) and having brought up three boys, I would like them to au pair and help some other poor mum. Just to pay them back for all they put me through!!

Reading on a wet day can be awful, can´t it? I was there two years ago (for a day) visiting relatives. Isn´t this a small world?

I think boys doing aupair is a good idea, perticularly if they have to look after smaller boys. There isn´t a lot of posebilities for younger children to have an example aged 18/19+.

In the early 80s a single parent friend of mine had a male Danish au pair to help look after her primary school aged kids. They're still corresponding (the kids and the au pair, I mean)

Gia sas! Ti Kanete;
Umm ... yes, I read your conversation thread. Most interesting.
I was born in Munster, a product of the BOAR and my sister, in Berlin. We got moved from hovel to hovel until around 11+, rather like Sho, it seems. We were, however, unintentionally protected from German culture. I guess that this is typical of service families and the insular nature of foreign forces in any country. We were taught German in the service schools although this turned out to be ironically disadvantageous later down my 'educational highway' precisely because of reasons that have already been discussed; during my secondary school education, I was way ahead of my peers to start with and consequently spent my time staring out of the classroom window. One day I looked back in, to find that I could hardly understand a word of what was being said.
Either way, my life became more stable until the end of the Upper Sixth, at which point I resumed my rather nomadic existence. And now I find myself in Athens battling with the hydra of a language, which Greek seems to be.
I do have a son, Alex, who is 16 months old. I speak with him exclusively in English. My wife speaks Greek to him, being of that persuasion and he seems to understand the both of us.
We have the dubious advantage of an ex-pat community in Athens, as one might expect which means that there are British schools and a Marks and Spencer, although I am not sure that my son's introduction into either of those would be beneficial. It's a tough call. His Mum considers him very much a Greek child and I'm in a halfway house. My work is likely to keep my family in Athens for many years, which currently suits.
In this respect, perhaps it is better for us to let our son develop his identity as a Greek lad who is very familiar with British culture. He will surely be a happier child if he can run outside of the house to be with his friends, than if we he has to travel to an exclusively British quarantine zone in order for him to play 'hide and seek'. There will be nothing to stop that happening, anyway. I like to think that he might benefit from the diversity of both cultures and be able to take from one and give to the other, in the same way that I am teaching Greek friends the card game of Cribbage and they in return are teaching me 'Bariba'. Still, it might not work out that way at all … we'll see!

Well, welcome to H2G2. Sorry I don't speak any more Greek than Kalimera, Kalispera, Efcharisto, paracalo, Nero and Pagoda. But that's not bad considering I haven't been there since 1979 or thereabouts.

Without wanting to impose, it is a help if you decide on a policy if you want your child (ren) to grow up bilingual. So talk to your wife and in-laws. Even if you eventually do what instinct bids you to do, which I think would be : one language one parent, you ought to be absolutely sure your spouse is behind you.

So try and find a balance between giving your son the best of both cultures and languages, without treading on anyone's toes.

So - Mahogany Twiglet - I just have to say that if you want to do a one-parent one-language thing you really need the backing of your spouse. And, if you look back through all these posts you'll see that Trillian's Child makes some really good points about speaking / singing / reading etc. more to your kids in English if you're away from an English speaking environment. My daughter is 3 1/2 and is now bi-lingual, but at first she was a slow talker (my 2 yr old, is an early talker - but 2nd kids often ar). Bilingual kids have a huge advantage, but you can't force them to "be English" if they feel Greek / German or whatever. Go with your gut feeling - this usually works in the parenting thing (doesn't it??) My biggest bugbear is people trying to speak to my kids in broken English. It's very difficult to politely to tell them always to use mother tongue. (even if it's Chinese, the little ones seem to pick up the meaning)

How are you getting on with learning Greek? The letters can be confusing, but I imagine the grammer and pronunciation are worse?

Sorry, that must have been a Freudian slip (I'm starving).

Oh yes, Sho, that thing about Germans trying to speak English. If that's one thing that embarrasses me it's that. That situation you describe, where someone asked a question in English at an interview, but it was incomprehensible. O God. I think it's less embarrassing when people are monolingual. They wouldn't see the shame in such a situation.

I think it is a good gauge of whether you are bilingual if you can speak another language without an embarrassed laugh at the end of each sentence. The only German I know who doesn't - i.e., speaks English totally relaxed and without any accent - is Campino of the Toten Hosen.

I also find it easier to speak German to some new acquaintance if they don't know I'm not German. Mind you, I don't giggle after each line. I used to get fed up with people at work doing this laugh thing, and making (for me) embarrassing jokes. Still, I expect this frilly knicker guy I might be working with in the future is going to be like that too.

His, Campino's, English is beautiful to listen to (and looking at him ain't half bad either). And .... I'm trying to think of anyone, and I can't. I have several Danish/Swedish/Finnish customers, and I could just speak to them all day. And I know I'll never ever speak English like wot they does. Ever. I have very few (one, actually) German friends who speak good (ie. perfect) English, so we speak German. And I'm blowing my own trumpet, but most people I meet for the first time have no idea I'm not German because I have a good accent. (the technique, in case any onlooker is interested, which I use is to speak as though I'm imitating a German speaking English. Honestly, it works - when you get over the first embarassment. I use it in French too)

Tell me more about the frilly knicker guy? I work with Koreans and sometimes they can't do English at all (Mondays usually). So I get them to send me e-mails. Much easier (and then when they change their mind - as they do every 20 minutes - I can shout at them about it with written back-up!)

Actually, I am only going for a job interview with him this afternoon, so it may come to nothing. Will let you know!!

Several of us are very interested in the outcome of this.
What language was the interview in, for a start?

So, does this mean you have stopped working at your last place? (I'm sure I noticed that you had stopped working altogether for greenish reasons??)
Also, didn't you mention that it was a Hong Kong based company? Was the interviewer Chinese? If so, did he make a big thing of it if you have to drive more than 30 minutes each way? (I ask because my Koreans think I'm mental for a 45 minute each way drive and I suspect that this is an Eastern thing)
Good Luck (retrospectively)

Well, if you are really interested in my career... I worked in a chemicals company for 7 years, 15 minutes drive away. Then they were eaten up by a big chemicals group and relocated some 68 km away - a 45 minute drive. I opted out after six months of driving (winter months, when I never saw my home in the daylight). And after a spiritual and physical break am now looking for a new job, nearer home and half time.

The interview this afternoon went very well, was more of a chat, where I asked what I hope were pertinent questions about the company. They sell underwear of all kinds, which is designed in Germany but which is then mass-produced in China. The chappy here was local, no Chinese, and has a son at my husband's school. We will keep in touch and I am quite confident I have a good chance, although I have no idea what the competition is.

Where do you drive 3/4 hour to? How do you do it with littl'uns?