h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Not all teenagers aspiring to be goths are "spooky kids" or "mansonites", a few are actually really creative and will no doubt become goths when they are older. (some people call them babybats)

There is a simple reason why it is difficult to be a goth as a teenager:

Goth is a subculture, which revolves around music and style. You've probably heard people talk about the "goth scene", which is basically everything that goes on between the local goth population. (I'm talking about socialising with other goths in the flesh - the internet doesn't count)

Now, to be considered a goth, you have to be part of the goth subculture, which involves taking part in your local goth scene. (You can't really call yourself a goth just because you dress like one and play goth CDs at home.)

The problem is that the goth scene revolves around gigs, pubs, and clubs. The sad truth is that most of these places are intended for adults. There just isn't anything in the goth scene that would involve under 18s. (you could go to wgw, but that's only twice a year)

In short, if the definition of a goth is someone who is a part of the goth subculture, and you really have to be over 18 to be involved in the goth scene, then under 18s can't really call themselves goths.

The closest thing you can be to a goth until you're old enough to start going to goth clubs and socialising with the local goth scene is to experiment with your personal style, fill out your CD collection etc, so that you will one day become a fully fledged goth.

Very good point. But can i point out there's nothing to stop younger goths socialising with the goth scene outside club, pub, bars, etc.

Would you say if you lived in rural settings with no other goths or bars, clubs, etc then you could not call that person a goth?

It's difficult to say. I was talking more about teenagers calling themselves "goths" when they have never interacted with the local goth scene and therefore don't have much experience of what it's all about. The goth subculture changes and evolves, so reading up on what the batcave used to be like will only educate you on the history, nothing more.

If you lived in a rural area, you would miss out on a lot but I suppose you could keep in touch with others via the internet when you didn't have the chance to travel to a city.
If someone had grown up in an isolated rural environment, and had had no contact with the goth scene then I would doubt they could have been sufficiently exposed to be in a position to call themself a goth anyway. If, however, you moved to the country you wouldn't automatically stop being a goth!

You said before that keeping in touch by the internet doesn't make you part of goth scene. So that's a lil bit of a controdiction. And i think it's a bit prejustice to say someones less goth than another simply by where they live.

But at the end of the day even if you do think it yourself this is not fact this is opinion like more less everything within Goth. And my opinion is that as "goth" (talking the subculture not the ones that invaded rome)is a person that is a fan of Gothic Rock. Hense the fact that's where "Goth" came from in the first place.

You can go to a goth club and not like the music. You can dress in a certain way and not like the music. But hey your really not a Goth if you don't like the music.

The term goth in this instance is used in the subcultural sense and since that was born of the music in a way then yes you can't be a goth if you dislike the music. That in itself is a contradiction in terms.

I am one of the older goths but i do keep a look out for promising youngsters to advise them etc. should they require it. The whole problem comes from the "pretend" when it is seen as fashionable to be goth or to think you are ione because you are going through a phase.

Not only is the music a major contributor but so too is the mindset and as these teen goths grow up they soon learn if they have it or if they are just in a phase.

Just as adolescence is a right of passage(in some odd sense) to adulthood so too is it the same into accepting whether they are goths, have the mindset, listen to the music and become involved in the scene.

Hi i'm back after like a year away...anyway

I don't think you can really "advise" young Goths. You can give them your opinion e.g. what's the best Sisters of Mercy album, what you feel Goth is about etc but they are there own people and as indiviuals we have to suss it out and come to our own conclusions. I don't think any of them "require" your "advice". That's what used to frustrated/s me as a Goth. I've been a Goth since 12 and i was told hundreds of fairytales about what Goth "really" was and what it wasn't and what you've got to suss is that you need to make it your own.

Goth is a fashion however you read it. If your not a slave to the image clothes wise chances are its the music if its not that it's the people and scene itself. It's a popular trend and idea amougst many people therefore it's a fashion. There's nothing wrong with trying something new. It's characther building and its good to experiment and fun new things in life. I've recently come slightly away from Goth at this point at life. You can call it a phase if you wish but the that has pushed me away is the seriousness of it. No one in the scene that i've met seems content with just having fun and experimenting their always keen to tag people as "real goth" and "fake" which makes it tiresome and will ultimately be the death of the scene.

I'm 16 years old and I am tired of having to worry wheither i am doing "goth" right. Wheither its a phase. The world's my oyster and i want to experiment and i am having fun trying out new scenes. It's freedom and I love it. Through being a GHoth it's like i found its a huge pressure but by not limiting yourself to something i can wear Rockabilly punk clothes, listen to indie, jazz, etc i can say what i like and i'm not always being told "o its a phrase, your not real". I don't think its a phase. I still like the music. I like to get into clubs if i can. I just like to call it freedom.

There is no mindset as far as i'm concerned. We are all indivuals. The point is not to be limited but it is slowly becoming more divided, limiting and dull.

Summary: There's no "real" goth It's just a bunch of peoples opinions threaded together.

Depends who you are with really. Have also beent into the scene from about 11 - 12 and all of the people in my social group all deal with the scene with a sense of humour and tend not to take too much notice of the serious ones. Our sense of fun can be infectious though we managed to get a whole SA online forum laughing which then carried over to the club. Humour is everything evven for goths