h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Palestinianlover

I just wanted to make sure that you read this since I spent ages writing it. It is a continuation from ‘Welcome’.

Well my view on Israel/Palestine is actually very simple as well. Israel was given to the Jews by God end of story. Your analogy is also false. The Jews have been living in that land since about 2000BC. It was their land then (given to them by God) but they shared it with the Canaanites. However, the Canaanites died out thousands of years ago giving the Jews complete control over their land. However, we know that the Jewish people had to leave for Egypt during a famine and were put into slavery. But even though they were not living in their land, they still owned it. Imagine you decide to go on holiday for a year. You are not living in your house but you still own it. The Jews then returned and took their land back but were thrown out again by the Romans in 135AD. From that point, the Jews were forced to wander the globe, suffering exile and persecution until the worse can of anti-Semitism in history occurred-the Holocaust, in which around 6 million Jews were killed (something Islamic terrorists try to deny).

The Jews returned to their homeland, supported by the International community and Israel was remade a country in 1948.
It would have been a nice ending but thousands of years of anti-Semitism don’t die hard. The Jews, who have been accused of everything from Christ-killing to running a global conspiracy were now accused of stealing land from the country of Palestine. But the fact is Palestine was just a region of land full of debt-ridden, semi-nomadic Arab peasants. And most of this region was ruled by landlords who lived in Egypt. Even people who lived in the region of Palestine knew that it was not a country. In May 1947, the representative of the Arab Higher Committee stated to the UN General Assembly that:

“Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity."

A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri (who would go on to become leader of the Palestine Liberation Organization) stated:

“It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

Palestine is not a country and the Palestinians knew it. That is why when Jordan ruled in for two decades, there was no such thing as a ‘Palestinian Liberation Group’. Now why is this? Why did they not complain about being ruled by Jordan? The answer is simple. Jordan is a Muslim country and Israel is Jewish. The Palestinians know they are not a country but they cannot stand being ruled by Jews. That is why they invented this lie that they are a country.

However, I find it to be utterly insane that anybody supports their lies. Arabs already control 21 countries of their own. What it not be nice if there could be one Jewish country? Just one Jewish country after all these years of suffering? Obviously, you don’t think so. And neither did Faisal Husseini, who just before he died in 2001, declared the Anti-Jewish, Islamic true intentions:

‘"We must distinguish the strategies and long-term goals from the political-phased goals which we are compelled to accept due to international pressures." But the "ultimate goal is the liberation of all of historical Palestine."

Islamic extremists don’t just want the West Bank and the Gaza strip. They just want that to start off with. They want the whole of Israel, Jerusalem and everything. And they won’t stop murdering men, women and children until they get it.

You call Israel evil. You should know that the Jews went out of their way to buy land where Arabs would not be displaced. In fact, Arabs were quick to sell their land as well. Or did you know that Israel is one of the most open societies in the world? In Israel, Arab people have equal voting rights (one of the only places in the Middle East where women can vote). Arabs have also held high Government positions (including Israel 's ambassador to Finland). Let see how many Jews have high Government positions in Iran. Arabic is an official language next to Hebrew in Israel. And Arabs don’t have to join the army in Israel so they do not have to fight against their own family. How many Muslim countries are that kind to Jews?


The fact is, you have been led along with a lie. Not unlike the Nazis saying that Jews were trying to take over the world, you have believed Islamic extremists declaring that Jews have stolen their country. But in the end, they equal the same thing. They are false and are spread by a hatred of Jews. And you have believed this anti-Semitic rubbish.

Have a read up on your history and see the facts, rather than the fairy tail.

Hi Good News

By your very flawed reasoning I could quite rationally claim all of Northern England as my own, disinheriting the germanic monarchy. You see I am a direct descendanct of the Norse kings of York and Northumberland. My people were chased out by the bl++dy Anglo-Saxons, though some families (like mine) remained. My ancestor's Gods, such as Odin, gave the land to my people.

Palestine or Israel is not the homeland of peoples who left it nearly two thousand years ago. What you are proposing is both illegal and preposterous.

However, it is now a political reality. I have already had a huge set of posts with Dr.Jeffreyo about this so I am not going to get tangled up in it again.

Let it be said that both the Israeli state and the PLO/Hamas/etc have used violence and injustice to further their causes. The original injustice was the creation of the Israeli state and until that state is prepared to make reparations the war will go on.

As for your plea that an ancient religion's adherents deserve a state, I couldn't agree more . I suggest that all Anglo-Saxon Christians prepare to leave both Britain and the USA so that the native religions and peoples of those isles can have them back - fair?

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

Matholwch - Resident Druid of this Parish /|\,
You seem like a very wise person. I was going to reply to Good_news but you did such a good news I found no need too. Yet I do have one thing I'd like to add.

"Let it be said that both the Israeli state and the PLO/Hamas/etc have used violence and injustice to further their causes."

I fully agree with such a comment. It is obvious. Yet let it be known that most of the evil is caused by Israel. There were two refugee camps in which Ariel Sharons troops went into them and massacred thousands. The names of the camps are Sabra and Shatila. In just those attacks alone 3500 people were mudered in cold blood. People say, including Good_news, that Israel is defending itself from Palestine (You said that to me in person today Good_News). I think that you'll find that dictionary.com defines defense as, "The act of defending against attack, danger, or injury." That means not taking an offensive position and invading. I have this link for you. In this site there is a list of names of the place, dates, and number murdered. Of course all of these massacres were done by either the israeli army or by Jewish extremists. Many of the number of dead people are N/A. That is because there were so many. http://www.palestinehistory.com/massacre.htm
I don't see how on earth you can support a country that has slaughtered so many people.

Palestinianlover

Matholwch did not answer my points. All he said was my logic was flawed. He did not answer my points about Palestine being a region, not a country, about Jordan, about democracy, about anti-Semitism, about the quotes I gave or anything at all.

Please don't try to fob me off with a patronizing paragraph that answers none of my points. If you feel you can defend Palestine then do so and answer my points.

Good_news didn't math say this:

"As for your plea that an ancient religion's adherents deserve a state, I couldn't agree more ok . I suggest that all Anglo-Saxon Christians prepare to leave both Britain and the USA so that the native religions and peoples of those isles can have them back - fair?"

THat's a valid criticism. Why can't you answer that?

Also,
"Israel was given to the Jews by God end of story."

You take such an ignorant point of view. If you are going to debate on a forum you need to be open to other opinions. If you say think that your beleifs are right then you should just not bother man.

Hi PL

I'd be very careful about the provenance of such sites as you quote. I remember the Sabra & Shatila massacres very well. Although the Israeli Army did not cover itself with glory, the camps were in their zone and thus supposedly under their protection, their troops took no active part in the massacres.

The attack was planned and led by General Michel Arun (who has recently returned to the Lebanon after two decades in exile as a hero and a man of peace). He was the military leader of the Lebanese Christian Militias. His troops stormed the camps in retaliation for the actions of the Syrian-backed Hamas forces in the Bekaa Valley.

The PLO was running the camps and had involved itself fully in the Lebanese civil war, thus making it a prime target for its enemies.

The source of all this is, of course, the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the failure of the occupying powers to properly replace it. There actually are no historically justifiable states between the Mediterranean, Egypt, Turkey, India and the Indian Ocean.

The British, and to a lesser extent the French, set up a group of artifical 'nations' - Syria, Iraq, Iran, The Lebanon, Jordan, Kuwait, Dubai, the UAE and Oman. In these we installed or supported friendly dictators such as the Saudi Royal Family, and expected them to all get along fine.

Then, by negligence or design, we allowed the dream of radical zionists to come true and left the whole mess to stew and boil over. Millions have died as a result.

Israel is an artifical and illegal construct, no matter how hard anyone tries to justify it. But it exists in an unstable morass of other artificial contructs. Saddam Hussein, for all his madness, was trying to unite by conquest a number of nations in the region into a facsimile of ancient Persia. Perhaps if we had done that in the beginning we wouldn't be in this mess.

Israel was a country founded by zionist terrorists who wanted their own country that is now plagued by islamic terrorists who want their own country. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The thing that saddens me most is the region is divided by worship of the same God. This is the true legacy of Abraham.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

'THat's a valid criticism.'

It is not a valid criticism for three reasons. One, God did not give those people the Uk but did give Israel to the Jews. Secondly, there are a number of secular arguments which defend Israel but none which defend these pagan tribes. And thirdly, the Jews are a race of people and it is their land (regardless of whether they follow their religion or not). But these pagan religions are simply that-religions and not races of people.

Palestinianlover

Once again you have not answered any of my points. Why not? Why did you focus on my first sentence? Why don't you answer my points about Palestine being a region, not a country. Why don't you answer my points about history? Why don't you answer my points about democracy?

You said you could defend Palestine easily against Israel but you don't seem to be doing very well.

Now stop trying to fob me off with three sentence comments and start debating properly.

'If you say think that your beleifs are right then you should just not bother man.'

If you think that your beliefs about Palestine are right then perhaps you should not bother?

You cannot debate without an opinion and it is rather daft of you to say that you can.

Hi GN

It amuses me that you still bang on about how your God gave Israel to the Jews. The evidence for this is? Oh yes the Jews own holy book.

I look forward to visiting your house with a set of ancient land deeds and claiming you are squatting on my land.

Despite their various claims to strict matrilinear descent a large proportion of those claiming jewish ancestry in Israel have far more Slav and Rus in their DNA than Red Sea Pedestrian . I probably have more Jewish DNA than half of the Israeli population.

One serious point, the 'religions' you point a stick at are in fact your brothers, the muslims. They are not pagan for they follow the God of Abraham, just like you. As a real pagan I object to you lumping a third of your God's people in our little camp, so push off

The people whose land these recent jewish immigrants have supplanted have as much, if not more, claim to it. They are a mixture of persians, turks, kurds, arabs and bedouin - descendants of the phoenecians, philistines, babylonians, sea peoples, greeks, romans, canaanites and bedouin - who were contemporaneous with the occupation of the land now called Israel in the centuries immediately before and after the life of the man Jesus.

Unlike the majority of the Jews, who were viciously expelled for rebellion against Rome, they remained and their bloodlines continued. How can you honestly expect these people, with a two thousand year legacy of actually owning and tending the land, just to move over for the distant descendants of these expatriates?

Apply your reason to that if you please?

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

Matholwch

I will get back to answering your points but I was not refering to Muslims when I said Pagans. I was talking about the people (such as yourself) who said they owned the UK and we should give it back to them.

I am not so ignorant about other religions that I would call a Muslim a pagan!

Good_News,
Sorry that I didn't write a full blown essay attacking each and every one of your points. In fact I didn't attack any at all. I have a life you see. Anyway's, will you shut up if I attack all of your points? Lets see.....

"Israel was given to the Jews by God end of story."
lol, nice pal. Sure, cause there is just so much proof to back up such a statement. Not everybody is such a jesus loving freak as you are. Most people feel that the killing of people is bad. Well, even if your almighty did give the land to the Jews I am sure he doesn't want them to kill thousands for control of the land. Didn't your god say not to get revenge. He say's that he'll take care of them himself. If you want to abide by a book, follow everything it says.

"The Jews have been living in that land since about 2000BC."
That's a fair deal. If they lived there for so damn long then we should give that land back to them. Of course if you want to not be a hypocrite you should also give back the Americas to the Native Americans. A large portion of Asia, northern Africa and much of Europe back to the persians......now know of course as Iran. That would only be fair if we followed your way.

"But even though they were not living in their land, they still owned it."
I think that when you leave land empty for generations it kinda doesn't belong to you anymore. I'm sure they didn't have a deed for the land. To quote you, "...the Jewish people had to leave for Egypt during a famine and were put into slavery." C'mon man, use your head.

"the Jews were forced to wander the globe, suffering exile and persecution until the worse can of anti-Semitism in history occurred-the Holocaust, in which around 6 million Jews were killed (something Islamic terrorists try to deny)."
First of all, I am a muslim as you know and I have NEVER heard another muslim deny the holocaust. At the same time though, I have heard Americans deny the holocaust. I live in America and many of them say that it was all just a big conspiracy. Hell, even so, I think it's true but don't worry. Instead of getting their revenge on the Nazi's they've decided to kill thousands of muslims.

"The Jews returned to their homeland, supported by the International community and Israel was remade a country in 1948."
This is where my earlier analogy comes in handy. I said that if I was to live in a house and I was forced to live with a roommate that I didn't want to live with there would be hostilities. If I own some land and want to share it with someone (Syria) but not with someone else that is my right. If it isn't then I think I'll come and live in your house cause then you'll know what it feels like.

"It would have been a nice ending but thousands of years of anti-Semitism don’t die hard."
No, they don't. Yet it is dying fast. Instead people are turning their heads towards the Islamic people because as we already know.....muslim equals terrorist. Remember what you told me on Wednesday? You said that there will never be peace because one side isn't christian. That kind of idea is promoted by propaganda that is spread by the american media and by the way that leaders of countries twist what muslims say into evil remarks.

"And most of this region was ruled by landlords who lived in Egypt. Even people who lived in the region of Palestine knew that it was not a country."
Thats funny because the other day you also told me that the Palestinian people lived in their land but were ruled by the syrians. Don't go back on your words. Also, right after saying that you went ahead and gave me the quote, "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." Make up your mind damnit.

"Palestine is not a country and the Palestinians knew it. That is why when Jordan ruled in for two decades, there was no such thing as a ‘Palestinian Liberation Group’. Now why is this? Why did they not complain about being ruled by Jordan? The answer is simple. Jordan is a Muslim country and Israel is Jewish. The Palestinians know they are not a country but they cannot stand being ruled by Jews."

There was no 'Palestinian Liberation Oraganisation' (PLO) because the people did not mind being ruled by people just like them. Yet when they are practically forced into having land taken from them by another nation and being ruled by them, I am sure they will oppose. Also, did you know that the UN resolution gave land to the Palestinians too. What does that mean then? IT MEANS THAT IS WAS AND STILL IS A COUNTRY!!!!!!!!! C'mon man.

"However, I find it to be utterly insane that anybody supports their lies. Arabs already control 21 countries of their own. What it not be nice if there could be one Jewish country? Just one Jewish country after all these years of suffering? Obviously, you don’t think so."
This is an interesting comment of yours. There are many more catholic/protestant (practically one religon) countries than Islamic. Why don't you then give some of your own land to them instead of stealing from others. I propose that we give the state or Nevada to the Jews. It is just like Jeruselam. A desolate and sweltering hot place.

"Islamic extremists don’t just want the West Bank and the Gaza strip. They just want that to start off with. They want the whole of Israel, Jerusalem and everything. And they won’t stop murdering men, women and children until they get it."
Yes, and the terrorist state of Israel doesn't just want what was given to them by the UN. That is why they are as we speaking attacking, invading, and slaughtering men, women and children untill they rid both the West Bank and the Gaza strip of any muslims. Doesn't that remind you of the Nazi's. They were trying to rid the world of jews. Now it seems that America and all of it's puppies seem to be doing the same thing with muslims. Yet instead they are just being careful about it. Maybe that would explain pointless wars in Iraq and the possibility of a war where all of my family is currently residing, Iran. Yet lets not get into that.

"You call Israel evil. You should know that the Jews went out of their way to buy land where Arabs would not be displaced. In fact, Arabs were quick to sell their land as well."
Right, they did buy some land from the Arabs. That is fair. That is in fact ok of them. Yet now that they are going into Palestinian land and destroying peoples homes and killing thousands of innocent people.......that's not evil? Sure, the Palestinians are suicide bombing too. Yet the amount of people that die in those attacks is nothing compared to the amount of innocent people that Israel has slaughtered. That's not evil at all....

"You call Israel evil. You should know that the Jews went out of their way to buy land where Arabs would not be displaced. In fact, Arabs were quick to sell their land as well."
I also find this funny. Much of the bs propaganda that exists around the world claims that in countries ruled by evil muslims women aren't allowed to vote. Did you know that in my country, Iran, women have the right to vote. Just ask my friend in Iran Nikoo. Or how about my other friend in Iran that is another girl....her names Sepanta. Or how about my stepmum. Did you know that in Iran women have practically every right that men have. They can vote, they can own land, they can have any job they want and they can go to university too. Keep in mind that all this is in a country ruled by a hardliner muslim. Also, this is in the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of Iran.

"Let see how many Jews have high Government positions in Iran."
Right, cause they are gonna allow jews to rule in an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC???!!! C'mon man, use your brain.

"Arabic is an official language next to Hebrew in Israel."
Right, Spanish is an official language in America but Mexican's and all other people living in America from spanish speaking countries (excluding spain) are treated with no respect whatsoever. Just cause it is an official language doesn't mean crap man.

You should really look at the facts of things Good News. You shouldn't just think about one side of the story. Personally, if I really wanted something that belonged to somebody else I wouldn't want to just be given it. That is just unfair and I would feel kinda pathetic that I can't fend for myself.

sry, I accidentaly clicked post reply before proofreading so if there are any mistakes on the above.........I'll fix them on friday cause I am gonna go to sleep now =P

‘lol, nice pal. Sure, cause there is just so much proof to back up such a statement.’

Read your Bible and you will see that it is true. The evidence completely supports it. Obviously you will not really take it in as you do not have the Holy Spirit to guide you in reading it.

‘Well, even if your almighty did give the land to the Jews I am sure he doesn't want them to kill thousands for control of the land.’

And since when did you start speaking for God? God has ordered the Jews to kill people who stole their land before and if He wishes it to be done again, then it will be.

‘If you want to abide by a book, follow everything it says.’

Good. So that includes the Old Testament as well. Which states that Israel belongs to the Jews.

‘If they lived there for so damn long then we should give that land back to them.’

Exactly.

‘Of course if you want to not be a hypocrite you should also give back the Americas to the Native Americans. A large portion of Asia, northern Africa and much of Europe back to the persians......now know of course as Iran.’

No because that land was NOT given to them by God.

‘I think that when you leave land empty for generations it kinda doesn't belong to you anymore.’

Oh yes it does. If I leave my house deserted for a year it still belongs to me. Israel was given to the Jews and it still belonged to them, even when they left.

‘First of all, I am a muslim as you know and I have NEVER heard another muslim deny the holocaust.’

Well I have. Extremist Muslims seem to like the idea as it paints the Jews in an even worse light. And you are not a Muslim. Don’t try to kid yourself. Anybody who eats bacon, drinks alcohol and doesn’t believe the Koran is the Word of God is not a Muslim.

‘Make up your mind damnit.’

What are you talking about? Read what I wrote. It shows that Palestine is not a country and even the Palestinians admit it.

‘There was no 'Palestinian Liberation Oraganisation' (PLO) because the people did not mind being ruled by people just like them.’

Exactly. They did not mind being ruled by fundamentalist Muslims. But when it comes to Jews, they decide to found their own phoney country.

‘Yet when they are practically forced into having land taken from them by another nation and being ruled by them, I am sure they will oppose.’

Rubbish. If they cared that much about freedom they would have rebelled under Jordan. They only opposed because they are a bunch of anti-Semites.

‘Also, did you know that the UN resolution gave land to the Palestinians too.’

I honesty could not care less. Israel is above the UN.

‘IT MEANS THAT IS WAS AND STILL IS A COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!’

It means no such thing. It means that the UN tried to make a non-country into a country. And that is something that all lovers of truth and democracy should oppose.

‘There are many more catholic/protestant (practically one religon) countries than Islamic.’

None that are ruled by theocracy and none in that region.

‘I propose that we give the state or Nevada to the Jews.’

Why? They already have their own land. It is called Israel.

‘Right, cause they are gonna allow jews to rule in an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC???!!!’

No they don’t. But they allow Muslims to have high Government positions in Jewish Israel. Now what society is fairer and more democratic? Hmm…

‘You should really look at the facts of things Good News.’

No I think you should. You have been conned into believing a lie. This reminds me of ‘nineteen eighty-four’. Muslim extremists have re-written the history books and you have believed them.

It is rather sad but fear not. Zionism will prevail in the end.

Hi Good News

"Read your Bible and you will see that it is true. The evidence completely supports it."

Really? This is the book that continuously contradicts itself? Do we want to get into a debate about biblical errancy? I suggest not as I would win hands down. Just a very little one then - the Bible states that a bat is a bird - discuss.....

"God has ordered the Jews to kill people who stole their land before and if He wishes it to be done again, then it will be."

And this is a God you respect, love and worship? What happens if God decides that Israel must be cleansed of all non-jews and gives them permission to kill every muslim, christian, armenian and non-orthodox jew within its biblical borders? Will you be so bl**dy smug then?

Every generation has spawned those who believe that 'Gott mit uns' and have declared that their genocide is God's will. In our generation we have had the Serbians already, you want more?

"No because that land was NOT given to them by God."

Now who believes that they know the mind of God? For all you know the Native American great Spirit is just Yahweh in a feathered hat. At the end of the day we have only the Jews word for it that that is what God said and intended.

The Holocaust is a lovely topic. For sixty years the Jews have claimed that they were the main victims of Nazi Germany. I am not denying that 4-6 million Jews did suffer and perish. However, as many catholics, communists, gyspies, slavs etc also died. The Soviet Union lost 23 million people, many of them Christians. Being persecuted does not give you the excuse to steal someone else's land.

Anti-semitism is another good one. I have no problem with people of any faith, path or race as long as they treat me with the same respect and courtesy. Sometimes I do wonder though just why the Jews have been so regularly persecuted every single place they go, and normally by the followers of Jesus it must be said. Either God really does not like them or they must do something to irritate the locals.

"Exactly. They did not mind being ruled by fundamentalist Muslims. But when it comes to Jews, they decide to found their own phoney country."

The displaced palestinians didn't go to live in fundamentalist muslim countries though. They retreated to two of the most open and tolerant countries in the Middle East at the time - Jordan and The Lebanon. In both countries they were initially received with great kindness and generosity.

As for phoney countries perhaps they decided to copy the actions of their enemies, the Israelis. After all what is good for the Goose...

"I honesty could not care less. Israel is above the UN."

As a signatory it is not, and that is International Law whether you care or not.

"Muslim extremists have re-written the history books and you have believed them."

Yes they have, but no less than Zionist extremists and their American backers have. Israel has flouted every UN directive for itself and the region and cannot be punished because America will veto it at the Security Council. The Islamic nations have no such support.

"It is rather sad but fear not. Zionism will prevail in the end."

And the bloods of millions will be on the hands of apologists like you. But you don't care as you are saved - I wonder what the man Jesus's attitude will be towards you? Is there no limit to your smuggery?

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

"Read your Bible and you will see that it is true."
Sorry but I am not a religous freak like yourself. I think that I have the chance to look at the scientific facts. Not just to follow what some ancient text says. The only reason that people such as yourself are so religous is because they fear death. That is why religon started.

"God has ordered the Jews to kill people who stole their land before and if He wishes it to be done again, then it will be."
If thats the case why is god so biased and doesn't tell the Native Americans to kill and take their land back? No wait, I know your answer. It's cause the land was given to the Jews by god. Well, since I don't beleive in god then I feel that your reasoning is ridiculous.

"So that includes the Old Testament as well. Which states that Israel belongs to the Jews."
Go ahead and follow your books. Just keep in mind that if I really wanted to I could write a book today with lots of stories that sound like lots of different heroin trips.....then if people find this book they'll call me jesus. You are basing all of your life on a couple of books.....what a waste.

"‘If they lived there for so damn long then we should give that land back to them.’
Exactly."
When I was saying that I was trying to make a point. You are a hypocrite for saying that the Palestinians shold give back Jewish land but Americans shouldn't give back land to the Native Americans. Get the point yet?

"No because that land was NOT given to them by God."
I've already talked about that. You shouldn't support killing people because your favourite book told you to do it.

"Oh yes it does. If I leave my house deserted for a year it still belongs to me. Israel was given to the Jews and it still belonged to them, even when they left."
Yes, but they didn't leave the land for a year. They left it for HUNDREDS of years. Also, other people inhabited that land for so damn long. Again, if you think that this is the case then give America back to the Native Americans. Britain back to the vikings. And most of Asia and parts of europe and northern Africa back to the persians.

"Extremist Muslims seem to like the idea as it paints the Jews in an even worse light."
Hell yeah we do. In fact, you seem to like all the propaganda that paints muslims as terrorists. Remember what you told me the other day? You said that the reason there will never be peace is because the other side is not christian........another words, cause they are muslim. That kind of idea is promoted through evil propaganda that is spread from the American media.

"It shows that Palestine is not a country and even the Palestinians admit it."
If that is so why are they fighting for their country. If that is the case what the hell did the UN resolution mean?

"Exactly. They did not mind being ruled by fundamentalist Muslims. But when it comes to Jews, they decide to found their own phoney country."
THAT IS BECAUSE THE 'FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIMS' ARE WHAT THEY ARE AS WELL!!!! Also, why did your great UN form a Palestinian nation? You might want to brush up a bit on your history. Here is a nice website you might like. Keep in mind that it is part of the UN website.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html
Here are some nice quotes for you:
"After looking at various alternatives, the UN proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish"
"In the 1967 war, Israel occupied the remaining territory of Palestine, until then under Jordanian and Egyptian control (the West Bank and Gaza Strip). This included the remaining part of Jerusalem, which was subsequently annexed by Israel. The war brought about a second exodus of Palestinians, estimated at half a million. Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 called on Israel to withdraw from territories it had occupied in the 1967 conflict. "
"In 1974, the General Assembly reaffirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, national independence and sovereignty, and to return. The following year, the General Assembly established the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People."

"If they cared that much about freedom they would have rebelled under Jordan. They only opposed because they are a bunch of anti-Semites."
If I choose to live under the control of one nation that is my choice. Yet if I don't want somebody to invade and kill my family and to steal my land that is also my choice you troll.

"I honesty could not care less (about the UN). Israel is above the UN."
That's the case isnt' it. You like the UN when it comes to ahnd but when it supports muslims right to live you hate it.

"It means that the UN tried to make a non-country into a country. And that is something that all lovers of truth and democracy should oppose."
Then are you saying that the creation of an Israeli nation by UN should be opposed by "all lovers of truth and democracy"?

"Why? They already have their own land. It is called Israel."
Because they stole it.

"You have been conned into believing a lie."
Lol, right. You keep beleiving that.

Matholwch

I'll answer your points in greater depth later but you state this:

'the Bible states that a bat is a bird'.


That is false. You are referring to Lev. 11:13, 19:

First, linean classification was not available when Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written, nor did a specific scientific definition for what a bird was exist. The classification of animals was made by function and form. This can be seen in the definition of words used to describe animals in the Old Testament. For example, the word here that we render "fowl" comes from the Hebrew word owph which means flying creatures, to include birds, winged insects, and any animal that owns a wing. It comes from a root word that means to cover or to fly. This verse could rightly be interpreted, "And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among flying creatures....". The King James Version seems to call the bat a fowl, but when you understand the times in which it was written, and the meaning of the original Hebrew, it's obvious there is no error here. (taken from Condender Ministries).

We could get into a debate about Biblical inerrancy (although it would go on for a while so I would rather not) but I would win.

Hi GN

OK let us have at it then:

As incredible as it may seem, there are some individuals who still say, "The Bible is perfect and inerrant. There are no inaccuracies." So, for the benefit of these holdouts, I am going to provide a list of some simple, straight-forward problems that even some well-known spokesmen for the fundamentalist position grudgingly concede:
(a) David took seven hundred (2 Sam. 8:4), seven thousand (1 Chron. 18:4) horsemen from Hadadezer;
(b) Ahaziah was 22 (2 Kings 8:26), 42 (2 Chron. 22:2) years old when he began to reign;
(c) Jehoiachin was 18 (2 Kings 24:8), 8 (2 Chron. 36:9) years old when he began to reign and he reigned 3 months (2 Kings 24:8), 3 months and 10 days (2 Chron. 36:9);
(d) There were in Israel 8,000,000 (2 Sam. 24:9); 1,1000,000 (1 Chron. 21:5) men that drew the sword and there were 500,000 (2 Sam. 24:9), 470,000 (1 Chron. 21:5) men that drew the sword in Judah;
(e) There were 550 (1 Kings 9:23), 250 (2 Chron. 8:10) chiefs of the officers that bore the rule over the people;
(f) Saul's daughter, Michal, had no sons (2 Sam. 6:23), had 5 sons (2 Sam. 21:6) during her lifetime;
(g) Lot was Abraham's nephew (Gen. 14:12), brother (Gen. 14:14);
(h) Joseph was sold into Egypt by Midianites (Gen. 37:36), by Ishmaelites (Gen. 39:1);
(i) Saul was killed by his own hands (1 Sam. 31:4), by a young Amalekite (2 Sam. 1:10), by the Philistines (2 Sam. 21:12);
(j) Solomon made of a molten sea which contained 2,000 (1 Kings 7:26), 3,000 (2 Chron. 4:5) baths;
(k) The workers on the Temple had 3,300 (1 Kings 5:16), 3,600 (2 Chron. 2:18) overseers;
(l) The earth does (Eccle. 1:4), does not (2 Peter 3:10) abideth forever;
(m) If Jesus bears witness of himself his witness is true (John 8:14), is not true (John 5:31);
(n) Josiah died at Megiddo (2 Kings 23:29-30), at Jerusalem (2 Chron. 35:24);
(o) Jesus led Peter, James, and John up a high mountain after six (Matt. 17:1, Mark 9:2), eight (Luke 9:28) days;
(p) Nebuzaradan came unto Jerusalem on the seventh (2 Kings 25:8), tenth (Jer. 52:12) day of the fifth month.

Howzat!!

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

And Jesus had four cloven hooves and wooly hair.(John 1:29)

"We could get into a debate about Biblical inerrancy (although it would go on for a while so I would rather not) but I would win."

a little sure of ourselves when your gettin creamed by matholwch