h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

but do they really want to discuss it...or isn't it more of pushing their own views. Have you never seen them backtrack..when faced with a staunch..Catholic, Baptist or whatever?

It's a requirement of their religion. First time I ran into it was when a boy in my 8th grade class showed up at the door with his mother. He was such a light-weight.. had no opinion of his own... was just dragged along.

My cousin..unfortunately married one... and talk about a strange wedding...only a couple of the guests were Jehovah witnesses..the preacher had a golden opportunity to preach to so many non-believers... but his sermon..had nothing to do with the couple..he talked about used cars.. and male dominance...and since the bride's father was a mechanic.. and I come from a family of stong-willed women.. the service did not go over well. No one said a thing... as to not destroy my cousin's day..but it left a lasting impression.

And more recently.. a niece's funeral was conducted by the Jehovahs' Witnesses. Despite what they said..she was not a member of their church. Her parents had divorced. She was Catholic... had told me just this past summer.. how much she disliked the church and being made to attend..But her mother.. pushed it on everyone...went against her own daughters wishes...

They will NEVER convince me... and really have no desire what so ever to discuss it with them..

Sad eh? Life's too short for that kind of stuff. But i guess some people need a crutch.

Girlfriend of mine (20 years ago) - mother was a JW - embolism in her (mother's) leg, wouldn't see a doctor - prayed a lot - died. Only c. 50.

I've heard that you can get rid of them by saying you're a practising Catholic, and inviting them in... Press in the UK covered a story a year or so back about some JW's (doing what they do...) getting involved in some physical argy-bargy with some householders that took exception to their activities. Pictures of them rolling round in the front garden. Fined for causing an affray (or something)

You'd think we'd learn that after thousands of years of blood-letting because my god's better than your god that it's all a complete waste of time. How depressing.

Oh well.

Well I'm going to put in my 2 cents.

Its just fine and dandy for people to be Baptist, Catholic, whatever. But just because someone is a JW they get talked about. Its pathatic that you can't just accept that everyone has their own point of views. If you people can't accept that I don't know how you are going to get along in the world.

Some of my best friends are JWs. Let me just say this they are some of the best type of friends you can have because atleast they have good morals and you know you can trust them, unlike some of the religions I know.

Since their views come from the Bible, 'discussing the Bible' and 'pushing their own views' are pretty synonymous. You can't reasonably expect them to do one without doing the other.


I suppose it never occurred to you that he was simply shy about talking to someone about his religion? Many adults are, so we might well expect a child to be.


What do you expect? I've been to both Witness and non-witness weddings, and never heard a talk about the particular couple that are getting married - a wedding talk is about marriage itself. I don't know what used cars have got to do with anything, but if you go to a wedding at a Kingdom Hall, you're going to hear about the Biblical view of marriage.
As for male dominance, many churches may embrace the idea of female equality, but the Bible quite simply and clearly says, "the head of a woman is the man" (1 Corinthians 11:3). If you want to believe something else, go ahead, but go to a Kingdom Hall and you're going to hear the Bible's view, not modern society's. God's view, not man's. Deal with it. Don't shoot the messenger.
(You conveniently don't mention all the other stuff that is always brought out at these talks, such as the command that a husband must 'love his wife as his own flesh', that a husband must 'honor his wife', and all the other Biblical commands that, when followed, make for a happy and long-lasting marriage, and that make it so rare for a married pair of witnesses to get divorced.)


At least it will have been conducted by a man who knew the deceased, unlike many funeral services.


If that's the way you want it, so be it. And in the end, if you are judged unrighteous, you can make your defence, "Well, I really had no desire what so ever to find out what God wanted."

All this talk of the minutia of JW beliefs and practices is all well and good, but cannot the same be said of other religions? JWs are so insistent about how they "got it right" that they often forget that everyone else who truly has faith in a particular religion are only trying to do the same thing. Just like other religions.

If JWs are supposed to walk in the footsteps of Christ, why are they severely discouraged from associating with anyone who is not of their religion? Granted, as one gets older, one is more efficiently adapted (brainwashed) to deal with the trials and tribulations of living in the "time of the end". What is this, by the way, the 4th or 5th time the world was supposed to end?

Are the JWs not subject to the same binding quality of humanity that we all share? And the same iniquities of flesh? Of course, so look to the organization itself. Is there a self serving hierarchy with a few fat cats sitting on top of a mountain of contributions, like other religions? Yes. Do they help people when natural disasters destroy their homes or when they didn't even have a home to begin with? Yes . . . just like other religions, with a few exceptions that I am too far removed from to go into. Do they have their own version of the Bible that perfectly conforms to the ideals of their religion? Yes, just like - well, I can go on and on (and will if prodded), but the point is made.

I've been on the giving and recieving end of the sunny morning wake up call, both bothering and being bothered. I've been to the seven meetings a week, given the 5 minute talks, and told to not associate with those of other religions or those who have been "disfellowshipped", except if the conversation was about spiritual matters. I've seen first hand on numerous occasions what all those Biblical commands about marriage amount to.

The fact of the matter is this. I am getting too long winded and too short tempered to keep whinging on about a religion that is basically no different from any other.

I have a desire to find out what God wants, but I know that the JWs don't know any better than the rest of the world.

Insight, huh?

If people in other religions are trying to do what God wants, they'll be willing to discuss it themselves, and that suits us fine.
It is a rarity though, for someone to put faith in a another religion because they believe it's what God wants. Peoples conversation generally reveals that their reason for sticking to a religion isn't because they have reason to believe God likes it, but because they themselves like it. Just look at the conversation here. Why did 'sassy gal' complain about the elder talking about 'male dominance'? Was it because she believed that the Bible spoke against that principle? Or was it because she 'came from a family of stong-willed women'?

Why is someone a Catholic? If a person is a Catholic because they like being a Catholic then:
1. They will not bother looking in the Bible to see whether what their church teaches is correct.
2. They will not be willing to converse with someone who argues against Catholicism.
(And if for some reason they do end up doing either of those things, it won't matter to them anyway.)
Result: They will remain Catholic forever, or until their desires change.

If a person is a Catholic because they believe it is what God wants and have a desire to please him then:
1. They will search the Bible for teachings about Hell and Purgatory, why God would endorse war between two largely Catholic countries, praying to statues, worshiping and praying to Mary, the use of rosary beads, and other such things.
2. They will be happy to speak to others about the Bible, including Jehovah's Witnesses, who will show them what the Bible says about Catholic teachings.
Result: They will not remain Catholic for long.

(That argument is, of course, assuming that the person believes in the Bible. Which if they are Christians, like most religious people we meet, they hopefully do, though if they don't, that issue will have to be addressed first.)


Do you imagine that Jesus would choose as his friends those who did not serve God? When he came across someone he thought he could help he would associate with them to the extent that was necessary in order to teach them. But do you think, if someone didn't serve God and showed no signs that they would ever do so, that Jesus would want them as a friend?
"Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits." - 1 Cor 15:33


Other 'worlds' (or, 'systems of things', as would probably be most in line with the Bible's terminology) were supposed to end, and did end, at a few points in history. The world of Noah's day was brought to an end, as was the Jewish system of things. As for the end of the current system of things, "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." - Matt 24:36.
Some witnesses, though not the organisation as a whole (as far as I remember, anyway), have thought that the end would come at one time or another. But they were mistaken, just as were the apostles who thought that Jesus was going to restore the kingdom of Israel.


You have no basis for that statement. I've been to the British Bethel, where the literature is printed. The people who work there live in flats. Flats of the same size and layout, whether the person who lives there is the overseer or a janitor. My Dad has lately been made an elder, and that certainly hasn't been a self-serving move for him. The governing body could hardly be described as 'fat cats', since that means being made wealthy by their position, and the allowance they get is the same as the Bethel workers - it was $11 a month in 1970, and though there's been a rise in living costs since then, I'm sure it's still considerably less than £100 a month now.
Whatever the exact details, I can hardly see us as being the same as other religions in this matter. And the words 'self serving' are certainly inapplicable.


Yes. But all the other Bibles conform to the ideals of our religion as well. That's the basis of our religion. The New World Translation was brought out in 1950. Before then, people came to all the same conclusions, and explained them to others, using the King James Version which was common in the country at that time. But over time, flaws in the common Bibles became evident - not least the fact that the 7000+ occurrences of God's name had been removed from them. The fact that the KJV used very archaic language also made things more difficult to understand than they needed to be. And so a more accurate and up-to-date translation was released. Is that wrong?


Five, WanderBoy. There are five meetings a week.
Which casts a little doubt over the honesty of the rest of your claims in that paragraph.


Truly, if you did ever go to those meetings, you went there with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears.

OUCH

well, i guess this wouldn't be any fun if someone out there hadn't anything intelligent to say. I (since I've been a little lad) have always believed the Sunday talk to be one meeting, The Watchtower to be another, the Tuesday Bible study (one hour) to be yet one more, and the Thursday ministry school and service meeting to be yet two more.

Anyhoo, i won't bother with re-quoting previous statements, but the few "fat cats" i did mention were not in the traditional few "rich village priests" which somebody so thoughtfully pointed out. Yes, there are many who subsist on meager wages, including JWs, who have some sort of hierarchical position in the grand scheme of things. They travel, they preach, they believe, and they DIE - penniless - just like the rest.

The impression i'd like to give is that i don't have any malicious thoughts directed towards any particular sect, but perhaps a shortcoming of mine is that i feel most adamant about the one i WAS (believe it or not) a part of for most of my life. In any case, it is the only one i can at least speak with any authority about, however minimal my involvement or knowledge be.

I don't really care what most other people believe about why they are involved in a religion - to me, it is simply your personal relationship to God, regardless of people, laws, blithering idiots (to which i might subscribe myself or any other who tries to refute me, and succeeds), and people who just plain can't wrap their heads around the idea that human beings were given free will by their Creator.

As far as being Catholic is concerned - a friend of mine has a grandmother and an aunt who is ninety three and ninety seven, respectively. When told that my folks, not myself, were JWs, they responded with the following:

(fahter,son,holy spirit gestures) - Goodness! They are even more strict than the Catholics!

(both of them being staunch catholics, by the way)

You know, i just can't see non all non JWs being suddenly deprived of their lives because they were judged upon what religion they happened to adhere to. It seems to me God is a little more intuitive than that.